Annual Megabattle thread of dooom.

[cryptoron]

I thought it was 75 in the new IG codex?

[Ian Mulligan]

The Hydra costs 200 points.  (Page 107 of Apocalypse base rules.)   80 points for something similar seems like quite a discount.

This has been changed with the new guard codex. Forgeworld updated their rules, reducing its cost to 75 points.

[blantyr]

The Hydra costs 200 points.  (Page 107 of Apocalypse base rules.)   80 points for something similar seems like quite a discount.

This has been changed with the new guard codex. Forgeworld updated their rules, reducing its cost to 75 points.

I thought that the Hydra and Valkyrie rules in the new IG codex were for non-Apocalypse games.  The models were just too cool to be restricted to Apokalypse only, so they created discount cost non-flyer rules for the models. 

The IG Codex Valkyrie is a skimmer, not a flyer, as there are no flyers in straight 40K.  Similarly, the IG codex Hydra is not long barreled and does not have an anti aircraft mount capability.  (It has benefits against skimmers and bikes, but there is no mention of flyers.)   When playing Apocalypse, one can play either version of either vehicle, but I thought one had to pay the extra cost for the extra capability if you want the Apocalypse versions of the vehicles capable of using the flyer rules.

[Grand Master Steve]

The Hydra costs 200 points.  (Page 107 of Apocalypse base rules.)   80 points for something similar seems like quite a discount.

This has been changed with the new guard codex. Forgeworld updated their rules, reducing its cost to 75 points.

I thought that the Hydra and Valkyrie rules in the new IG codex were for non-Apocalypse games.  The models were just too cool to be restricted to Apokalypse only, so they created discount cost non-flyer rules for the models. 

The IG Codex Valkyrie is a skimmer, not a flyer, as there are no flyers in straight 40K.  Similarly, the IG codex Hydra is not long barreled and does not have an anti aircraft mount capability.  (It has benefits against skimmers and bikes, but there is no mention of flyers.)   When playing Apocalypse, one can play either version of either vehicle, but I thought one had to pay the extra cost for the extra capability if you want the Apocalypse versions of the vehicles capable of using the flyer rules.

In apoc games there was a white dwarf errara, the Valk automaticly gains the flyer special rule in addition to its old ones. There is no mention of Hydras having AA on their guns how ever.

[jesterofthedark]

the WD variant has its own special rules.  But I think this is an issue to actually have discussed....


What is the offical ruling on Apocalypse vs. Non-apocalypse versions of things?  I don't see an issue with allowing both but the concern comes when someone wants to field the flying and the skimmer verison in one force.   I just personally don't want to have to keep checking if what I am attacking is actaully something different.

[cryptoron]

Necron AA Obelisk 150 Points
Unit: 1-3 AA Obelisk
Type: Immobile Vehicle
Armor: F(12), S(12, R(12), Living Metal
BS:4
Weapons: 4 Turret Mounted long-barreled Gauss AA Cannons

Long-barreled, AA Gauss Cannon: Range (12"-64"), Str (6), AP (4), Heavy (1), AA Mount, Gauss

Special Rules:
Phase Shift Generator - All units with the Necron special rule with at least one model within 6" receive an 5+ invulnerable save.

Deep strike as Monolith.

Now it's only 4 shots at BS4 with no re-rolls for misses.

[cryptoron]

As for the Hydra, the 75 point vs the 200 point seems to be just the AA capability, seems a lot for 125 points.

[Logan007]

at 150 points, I think it'd be fair if that gun was str 7, especially if you only have 4 shots.

[Moosifer]

Ron - You are over thinking things.  100 points you should be looking at something like you have, Heavy 4 at BS4, reduced range to 60 inches (so you would be looking at 48" vs flyers) and you have the perfect balance.  As for your AV, 11/11/10 with living metal should be perfectly fine, it is well balance for an apoc game

[Logan007]

Ron - You are over thinking things.  100 points you should be looking at something like you have, Heavy 4 at BS4, reduced range to 60 inches (so you would be looking at 48" vs flyers) and you have the perfect balance.  As for your AV, 11/11/10 with living metal should be perfectly fine, it is well balance for an apoc game

Necrons were built to endure. I'm pretty sure AV 12 is fine for 150 points. maybe even armor 13 (a space marine predator w/ the autocannon turret is only 85 points)

[Grand Master Steve]

Isnt there already rules for the Obelisk in Bell of Lost Souls?

[cryptoron]

I think the Obelisk in the Bell of Souls is more of a Power Matrix Cannon, as opposed to an AA gun.

[Achillius]

the WD variant has its own special rules.  But I think this is an issue to actually have discussed....


What is the offical ruling on Apocalypse vs. Non-apocalypse versions of things?  I don't see an issue with allowing both but the concern comes when someone wants to field the flying and the skimmer verison in one force.   I just personally don't want to have to keep checking if what I am attacking is actaully something different.

Just a note on this. WD353 2009, states that when using Valks and Vendettas from Codex IG it is appropriate for them to be flyers.
 That seems, at least in this case, it'll be just like last year pre-codex IG. you have to declare what mode the craft is in at the beginning of each movement.

Are there any other vehicles like this we need to take into consideration?

Cheers,
Alan

[YuCeh]

Yo what up B, Yeah I am definately bringing my ass down there for the megabattle.

-Dan Chase

PS... Bringing Chaos Daemons 3.5kpts  Maaaybe more

[blantyr]

As for the Hydra, the 75 point vs the 200 point seems to be just the AA capability, seems a lot for 125 points.

Perhaps.  I'm paying 258 points for my flyers though.  I think that is somewhat expensive too, for 10 10 10 hulls with 2 bright lance and 2 S-cannon.  Arguably, GW has the point cost in the flyer game high.  Still, I don't know that we should start discounting anti air while keeping the price of the flyers high.

I'd appreciate it if you stay close to the Hydra data sheet.  It is reasonable that you want to add living metal, gauss and BS4, but if you do so your price should be above 200 and your average number of hits comparable to the Hydra.

If you are putting down one such pylon, no big deal.  If you are thinking of building a whole bunch of them, that would be something else.