Annual Megabattle thread of dooom.

[Ian Mulligan]

The Hydra costs 200 points.  (Page 107 of Apocalypse base rules.)   80 points for something similar seems like quite a discount.

This has been changed with the new guard codex. Forgeworld updated their rules, reducing its cost to 75 points.

I thought that the Hydra and Valkyrie rules in the new IG codex were for non-Apocalypse games.  The models were just too cool to be restricted to Apokalypse only, so they created discount cost non-flyer rules for the models. 

The IG Codex Valkyrie is a skimmer, not a flyer, as there are no flyers in straight 40K.  Similarly, the IG codex Hydra is not long barreled and does not have an anti aircraft mount capability.  (It has benefits against skimmers and bikes, but there is no mention of flyers.)   When playing Apocalypse, one can play either version of either vehicle, but I thought one had to pay the extra cost for the extra capability if you want the Apocalypse versions of the vehicles capable of using the flyer rules.

Once the new guard codex came out, FW adjusted the point costs for all IG vehicles they have. In the IA with the Servants of Decay army list, there is a brand new index of IG vehicles for play, including Hydras with AA mounts for 75 points and Vendettas with the Flyer rule for 130 points.

I'm sure once Rich Borque or Mike Do has time, they can post the full title of the new book along with page numbers to settle this.

[Grimwulfe]

Chase and crew.

There is correction in my force for the Mega Battle.

I will be playing 4k points of Thousand Son Marines for the Mega battle!

Praise be to the chaos gods!

[Moosifer]

As for the Hydra, the 75 point vs the 200 point seems to be just the AA capability, seems a lot for 125 points.

Perhaps.  I'm paying 258 points for my flyers though.  I think that is somewhat expensive too, for 10 10 10 hulls with 2 bright lance and 2 S-cannon.  Arguably, GW has the point cost in the flyer game high.  Still, I don't know that we should start discounting anti air while keeping the price of the flyers high.

I'd appreciate it if you stay close to the Hydra data sheet.  It is reasonable that you want to add living metal, gauss and BS4, but if you do so your price should be above 200 and your average number of hits comparable to the Hydra.

If you are putting down one such pylon, no big deal.  If you are thinking of building a whole bunch of them, that would be something else.

Sorry Bob, but guard players are within their right to take whichever variant they want as long as they let folks know about it before hand...

[Typhus]

I guess this is my intro and de-lurk post -

I'm Jared, and an Ardboyz from Cambridge.  I got wind of this via another 40k forum, and on behalf of us up north, I'd be honored to sign up for the forces of Disorder with some more Chaos.

[Grand Master Steve]

the WD variant has its own special rules.  But I think this is an issue to actually have discussed....


What is the offical ruling on Apocalypse vs. Non-apocalypse versions of things?  I don't see an issue with allowing both but the concern comes when someone wants to field the flying and the skimmer verison in one force.   I just personally don't want to have to keep checking if what I am attacking is actaully something different.

Just a note on this. WD353 2009, states that when using Valks and Vendettas from Codex IG it is appropriate for them to be flyers.
 That seems, at least in this case, it'll be just like last year pre-codex IG. you have to declare what mode the craft is in at the beginning of each movement.

Are there any other vehicles like this we need to take into consideration?

Cheers,
Alan

Yep this was what I was refering to in my earlier post. There is also a data sheet for a special Valk that is brimming with snipper riffles and also a Data sheet which has multiple valks and vendettas, what it does I dont know. As for Hydras Any one fielding them is within their right to say which varient it is going to be.

[Warpedfuzz]

I guess this is my intro and de-lurk post -

I'm Jared, and an Ardboyz from Cambridge.  I got wind of this via another 40k forum, and on behalf of us up north, I'd be honored to sign up for the forces of Disorder with some more Chaos.

Welcome!

[Chase]

Chase and crew.

There is correction in my force for the Mega Battle.

I will be playing 4k points of Thousand Son Marines for the Mega battle!

Praise be to the chaos gods!

Cool.  I'll change this when I get to the store.

[Grand Master Steve]

Whats currently the count of Order Players and Disorder Players?

[Chase]

I'll let you know in a little while, Steve.  I haven't been at the store since Monday night, so I haven't updated anything since then.  Maybe I'll see you in a little while.


Anyways, business:

One thing on the "to do" list includes (but isn't limited to) the following...

Figuring out exactly how we want each table to contribute to the overall score.  Basically, how we want objectives to be scored on each table, and how they score on each table with influence the game overall.

Our ideas change every day. 

Currently the idea is to score objectives at the top of each player turn, starting round 2.  The score will continue to accumulate each round after that until the game is over or time is called on the event.  At the end of the event, the total number of points scored by each team will be divided by the number of rounds that table finished.  The three scored from each table will the be added together to give us our winner.

The moon table and the cavern table (the 5v5 tables) will be worth exactly half of the objective points that the planet surface table (10v10) has.

For instance:  Moon Table = 5 objective points / round.  Planet Surface = 10 objective points / round.  Cavern = 5 objective points / round.

If one team completely removes the other from any table, they will score the maximum possible points for that table.

Please break this.  Explain why its a bad, unfair, or broken method of scoring.  This is very, very important.

[Captain Bryan!]

with the cavern table, im assuming that there won't be drop pods and stuff like that allowed there, if a player on that table had one, where would it get dropped?

[Logan007]

with the cavern table, im assuming that there won't be drop pods and stuff like that allowed there, if a player on that table had one, where would it get dropped?

Maybe they shoot holes through the ground before the drop pods land

[blantyr]

with the cavern table, im assuming that there won't be drop pods and stuff like that allowed there, if a player on that table had one, where would it get dropped?

I would assume that drop pod armies would try to get themselves assigned anywhere but the cavern table.  As I understand what's being proposed, players are going to be at one of the three sets of tables, and are not going to be allowed to move between table sets.  Depending on how exotic the rules get, players may really want to avoid one table set or another.   We'll have to see what the table rules look like.

[General Leevous]

Once again I'm going to reiterate that the objectives be something that doesn't block line of sight to give a clear advantage to one side like last year... and mabye multiple objectives on each table instead of one. Other than that it seems very down to earth and very fair

[Chase]

I'm most interested in the math behind the scoring and how a player(s) / team would exploit the scoring method.

If it will not work or has glaring problems I would like to hear about it.  Please rip it apart.

[the_trooper]

As for the Hydra, the 75 point vs the 200 point seems to be just the AA capability, seems a lot for 125 points.

Perhaps.  I'm paying 258 points for my flyers though.  I think that is somewhat expensive too, for 10 10 10 hulls with 2 bright lance and 2 S-cannon.  Arguably, GW has the point cost in the flyer game high.  Still, I don't know that we should start discounting anti air while keeping the price of the flyers high.

I'd appreciate it if you stay close to the Hydra data sheet.  It is reasonable that you want to add living metal, gauss and BS4, but if you do so your price should be above 200 and your average number of hits comparable to the Hydra.

If you are putting down one such pylon, no big deal.  If you are thinking of building a whole bunch of them, that would be something else.

It would be best for all of us to have the rules for our respective models and follow them as well.   

As per GW rules, you use the latest rules set available.  I cannot pick and choose to use the old chaos codex, can I?