Author Topic: Elder Dragon Highlander  (Read 10253 times)

Ian Mulligan

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2009, 11:09:01 AM »
Excellent games! Your deck got taken out early due to the threat of multiple dragons and Obliterate, but not before it could cast a crippling Devastation.

After talking to everyone at the store, it looks like we're all free Tuesdays. I think that's now the official unofficial EDH night.
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Seth

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2009, 09:26:56 PM »
thats sounds good and i am am happy to hear that it made everyone so happy
those who win every battle are not really skillful- those who render others' armies helpless without fighting are the best of all.  ~Master Sun Tzu

Ian Mulligan

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2009, 11:10:54 PM »
Usual crowd will be around on Saturday after 1.
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Seth

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2009, 09:46:05 PM »
are we going to be playing this saturday too.
those who win every battle are not really skillful- those who render others' armies helpless without fighting are the best of all.  ~Master Sun Tzu

Guu

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2010, 02:04:26 PM »
Looking at the little list of recommended banned cards on the OP link, some of them make a lot of sense while others don't make much sense at all to me.  Karakas?  Yes, oh yes.  That's just goofy.  Kokusho the evening star makes sense too, a card like that just ruins the format. 

But Black Lotus?  It's a 100 card deck with one lotus in it, is that really such a game buster?  Library of Alexandria?  Again, it's a 100 card deck so you're not going to reliably get it out when it will do you any good.  In my games with Riley last night we both had cast ourselves down to 2~3 card hands by mid-game...your chances of getting a 1st turn library and racking up a huge card advantage are pretty low with 100 cards...is the library of I-Win really so bad in this format?  Time Walk?  Tinker?

I've got a feeling that whoever came up with the 'tenative ban list' for EDH just kinda threw the power nine and recognized vintage king-of-the-hill cards in there for the hell of it.  Sure, if you throw the p9 in your EDH deck it will make a difference, but an odd mox here and there doesn't change much of anything.

The EDH rules are supposed to facilitate what people in the community consider 'fun.'  Obviously, Karakas and coalition victory aren't likely to be much fun, but I propose we consider what we'd like to exclude from the format at battlegrounds.  I say this because I really haven't played any magic down there so I don't know what y'all consider fun...or even what ANYONE considered fun after 1999.

Ian Mulligan

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2010, 02:19:19 PM »
From the official EDH forums:

"Those of us who work to keep EDH coherent and playable work by consensus, but we have a few guidelines that we use when it comes to banning cards. Someone pointed out that the three criteria against which cards have come to be judged for banning aren't clearly published anywhere, so I'll post and sticky this for reference. This is primarily my opinion, but reflects a reasonable description of the commonly applied thought process.

For a card to be considered for banning (or kept banned), it should be causing problems in EDH games due to one of three things:

   1. Its power level in multiplayer EDH is signficantly higher than both what's expected for its mana cost AND it's power level in other formats (due to different rules or game sizes). [Examples include Panoptic Mirror and Biorythm]
   2. it's dollar cost is prohibitive for most players and the card usually detracts from the playing experience of everyone in the game [The Power 8].
   3. it belogs to a class of cards which can't be consistantly interpreted by all players [Silver bordered cards, dexterity cards]


The first criteria is the most commonly applied and as such a little more complex than the others. The purpose is to ban cards which are made "excessively more powerful" by the format-specific rules of EDH. While some cards are naturally undercosted in every format (Lightning Bolt, Time Spiral), they aren't made _worse_ by EDH. [Lightning bolt is unlikely to actually cause problems anyway, so it wouldn't even make it that far]

An additional principal which is commonly referenced is the ease with which a card can be answered. This is somewhat related to criteria #1, in that the size and singleton nature of the format makes answers harder to come by consistently. Keeping answers onhand, lest the game end suddenly, detracts from the interplay and variety of the format so it's considered a strike against the power level of a card if it's "answer this or lose now". Creatures are something of an exception here, as creature removal is far more prevalent, common, and flexible. The fact that answers exist to be tutored up is not a mitigating factor though... the question is whether those answers are commonly applicable or must be "forced" into an anotherwise healthy metagame. "

Nearly all of the cards you listed either a) contribute to degenerate combo that breaks the spirit of EDH (especially at BG, where everyone plays it rather casually, avoiding the "best" combos and most degenerate generals) or b) cost a lot of money. While the group tends to be okay with proxying shit like Gauntlet of Might or Eureka!, I don't think anyone wants to see everyone add moxes and a lotus to each of their decks.

Since you seem to be new to the format, I doubt you've been on the receiving end of someone drawing much more fast mana than you. Having an opponent drop t1 sol ring into Mana Vault is usually a blow out. Having more artifact mana would make it a lot more common.

Outside of what I stated above, the biggest reason we use the EDH website's rules is for common ground. We have people from other stores coming in to play, people who play competitively, casual players, etc. With such a diverse group gathered from so many different circles, its just plain easier to go with the "official" list so everyone always knows what they'll be dealing with.
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Guu

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2010, 04:17:05 PM »
Nearly all of the cards you listed either a) contribute to degenerate combo that breaks the spirit of EDH (especially at BG, where everyone plays it rather casually, avoiding the "best" combos and most degenerate generals) or b) cost a lot of money.

There are plenty of degenerate combos that can be made without using any of the very small number of cards on the recommended banned list.  What I'm saying is I'd like to get a better read on what Battlegrounds players consider fun and fair play.

Back home we considered major hosers (chill, gloom, conversion, flash fires) to be absolutely banned and we considered playing cards that were banned in vintage (chaos orb) to be out as well.  We never allowed proxies.  We frowned on playing more than four of the p9.  We did not condone land destruction decks.

Those things being said, stuff like white nights or protection from creatures were thought to be OK.  having a strip mine or the odd land destruction card in your deck was also OK, but it wasn't well received if you used these to destroy an opponent's mana pool...they were there to get rid of lands that had other effects.

Alternatively, down in Atlanta, GA they have an anything-goes attitude towards casual play.  Casual players aren't taking the game seriously, so they can put four (or more!) soul rings in their deck and no one will bat an eye.

I'm pretty unfamiliar with the Boston magic scene even though I fancy myself reasonably well known at BGs.  I'd just like to know which cards will get me punched so I can duck.

Ian Mulligan

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2010, 04:38:08 PM »
There are plenty of degenerate combos that can be made without using any of the very small number of cards on the recommended banned list.  What I'm saying is I'd like to get a better read on what Battlegrounds players consider fun and fair play.

They don't make the combos; they fuel them. Combos that maybe very good or mildly annoying become consistent, unfun, and crushing.

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Back home we considered major hosers (chill, gloom, conversion, flash fires) to be absolutely banned and we considered playing cards that were banned in vintage (chaos orb) to be out as well.  We never allowed proxies.  We frowned on playing more than four of the p9.  We did not condone land destruction decks.

The hosers you list no one cares about due to how narrow they are. Proxies are fine as long as the card is over $60 and would only be good for you in EDH. Multiple mass LD like Obliterate, Decree of Annihilation, and Jokulhups make sad faces.

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Those things being said, stuff like white nights or protection from creatures were thought to be OK.  having a strip mine or the odd land destruction card in your deck was also OK, but it wasn't well received if you used these to destroy an opponent's mana pool...they were there to get rid of lands that had other effects.

Yeah, all of those are fine.

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Alternatively, down in Atlanta, GA they have an anything-goes attitude towards casual play.  Casual players aren't taking the game seriously, so they can put four (or more!) soul rings in their deck and no one will bat an eye.

Well, deck construction rules prevent any more than 1 of any card outside of basics, so this isn't anything to worry about.



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I'm pretty unfamiliar with the Boston magic scene even though I fancy myself reasonably well known at BGs.  I'd just like to know which cards will get me punched so I can duck.

I'm not familiar with Boston's scene, either really. But BG is all about having a good time, bringing a good deck that doesnt ruin the game for anyone (mass LD, fast reliable combo or lockdown), and blowing some shit up. Avoid random use of mass land destruction, degenerate combo, and come to have fun. You'll be fine.

Definitely come by on a Tuesday to see how everyone plays. Most of us are "seriously casual". That can be pretty hard to grasp without seeing games played.
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EvilC

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2010, 09:48:11 AM »
I met the Bolt Depot gang last month and we had a good Planechase EDH game.  I was playing Dark Sygg and my gf was playing Doran.  It's nice to see casual Magic at the BG.

Are you guys still playing on Tuesday nights?  I've been away for a couple weeks but we're able to make it to BG this Tues if anyone is up for some EDH.

Clive

Ian Mulligan

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2010, 11:11:29 AM »
We're definitely still heading in. It would be awesome to get some games in with you Tuesday.
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Dude

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2010, 01:28:54 PM »
Hey, I'm planning on showing up Tuesday for EDH.  Hopefully I'll see you there.

Made some adjustments to my Wort deck and want to try it out.

-Sean

EvilC

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2010, 07:01:49 PM »
Hey, I'm planning on showing up Tuesday for EDH.  Hopefully I'll see you there.

Made some adjustments to my Wort deck and want to try it out.

-Sean

Sweet, we'll see you there.

Ian Mulligan

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2010, 11:54:26 PM »
Steph and I will not be able to make EDH for the next 5 weeks. Steph has a class starting that will be meeting Tuesdays and Thursdays and we share a car.
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EvilC

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Re: Elder Dragon Highlander
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2010, 11:55:00 AM »
For anyone interested in playing EDH at the BG, we're still playing every Tuesday night starting around 6pm until whenever.  Lots of fun games with and without Planechase.

We don't reserve Generals, so bring whomever you want to play.  We hope to see you there.

Clive