Unbound lists, are they really a big deal anymore?

[MM3791]

When 7th ed was first released, Unbound lists looked really overpowered, however now with the detachment systems in the last 4 codices(Necron, CW, SM, & DA), players can pretty much take whatever they want anyways, and in addition benefit from the detachment bonus rules.

For example in a regular Battle Forged list, Craftworld Eldar can legally field 12 fire prisms(Vaul Engine detachment), or 12 squads of fire dragons (Aspect Shrine detachment), and also get bonus rules too. Again, this is in a Battle Forged list, and this is the direction all future codex are headed.

So with that said, what are players opinions of unbound lists now? Especially with the "older" codices, are players worried about unbound orks or chaos marines anymore? Perhaps the Unbound list was always intended as a failsafe against future codex creep. Thoughts?

[shwnlyns]

My thoughts are that formations and decurion style detachments shouldn't be allowed in tournaments at all. Like you said, they pretty much allow you to take whatever you want and give additional rules. Now not all are as good as others, and I don't mind playing them in pick up games, but it seems broken to allow them in tournaments. Just my two cents, I'm sure others will disagree.

[MM3791]

Interesting perspective, though that would essentially roll the game back to 6th ed and might have a negative impact. Regardless I thought this thread was a good way to raise awareness to tourney organizers who don't follow the game as closely. Every tournament specifically says "Battle Forged" but now that term isn't much different then Unbound, and in many cases the Battle Forged formations are more powerful then an Unbound list, while putting older codices at a bigger disadvantage. Allowing Unbound might even the playing field and encourage armies not normally seen.

[robpro]

Allowing unbound in tournaments would just let people run the optimal number of wraith knights and flyrants, I very much doubt you'd see anything interesting.

[fiesta0618]

Warhost/Decurion/Gladius, while permissive, still limit you to one faction, and make secondary factions potentially difficult to include.  Unbound removes all "taxes" and limitations.  I think the difference is significant.

[MM3791]

Warhost/Decurion/Gladius, while permissive, still limit you to one faction, and make secondary factions potentially difficult to include.  Unbound removes all "taxes" and limitations.  I think the difference is significant.

Yes it does remove the "CAD tax", but as far as I can tell it still has to adhere to the allies matrix limitations.. so still no librarians riding carnifexes into battle.

Allowing unbound in tournaments would just let people run the optimal number of wraith knights and flyrants, I very much doubt you'd see anything interesting.

Yea that's my point, a Battle Forged Craftworld list can still take up to 12 Wraith Knights with the "Wraith Construct" detachment. It's already tournament legal

Anyways I'm not advocating for a change either way, I just thought it's a discussion worth having

[AstartesXXVI]

Where I play, we have three people who play unbound, honestly it does not seem a big deal especially in light of formations. But in context of events I'd still not allow it just because that is where you would truly get some strange WAAC-motivated stuff more than anything.

[fiesta0618]

Warhost/Decurion/Gladius, while permissive, still limit you to one faction, and make secondary factions potentially difficult to include.  Unbound removes all "taxes" and limitations.  I think the difference is significant.

Yes it does remove the "CAD tax", but as far as I can tell it still has to adhere to the allies matrix limitations.. so still no librarians riding carnifexes into battle.

Allowing unbound in tournaments would just let people run the optimal number of wraith knights and flyrants, I very much doubt you'd see anything interesting.

Yea that's my point, a Battle Forged Craftworld list can still take up to 12 Wraith Knights with the "Wraith Construct" detachment. It's already tournament legal

Anyways I'm not advocating for a change either way, I just thought it's a discussion worth having

What we're saying is, to run 12 Wraithknights in a Battle-Forged list, you need to take a bunch of other things.  To get 3 Flyrants, you need at least 3 Mucolids (an admittedly small tax). 

With our Unbound example , you can take just WKs and Flyrants, as many of each as you choose, and nothing else.  To illustrate it better, imagine adding Heldrakes, Grav Cents, Drop Pods, and a Portalglyph to the mix.  No matter what detachments you choose, there's no way to get that level of cross-faction efficiency in a Battle-Forged army at a reasonable points level.

In other words, it's not really WITHIN a faction that Unbound becomes silly--it's when you have an army that cuts ACROSS factions that the difference starts to show.

[Vercingatorix]

I think it would make a decent difference inside the faction as well. The biggest limiting factor for orks is the lack of HQ's where you need them. So you need to take 150 points of gretchen to fit everything you want in the list.

Fiesta is right that it becomes much different when you're able to grab single units from multiple codex's. Especially on the imperial side where they are all battle brothers. I think the part that would frustrate me is that most people can only only reasonable remember the rules for their codex and the few they often play so if you have an army from 4 codexes, unless I'm sure that person knows there stuff it's probably going to be a long game.