[Plainville MA] Warhammer 40k 1850pt Singles Tournament- 5/9

[Nathan B]

Let me just throw in my support to the Battleground people, and the wider community.

Not everyone gets a turn to win. Awesome paint is awesome paint, and awesome players are awesome players. The emphasis on good painting is a good thing for our community to have and gives me something to aspire to, and these paint prizes still won't reimburse them for the time and money they spent making our games look awesomer.

As someone who missed the last tournament but has been to several, and has not won any prizes except for one fluke, I'm not the best, and so I don't expect to win. For me, tournaments are an opportunity to play against a wider variety of people than usual. I come for the love of the game. Although prizes and recognition are nice, I'm growing more mature as the years go by, and unlike my younger self, I can survive and thrive without them. I hope you (all) will continue coming to wonderful, "typical" Batleground tournaments, so I can continue experiencing the wonderful variety you all provide.

My only real complaint about Battleground is that it's almost half an hour away from me.

[Tsilber]

WOAH just saw the post. I usually feel no need to defend my self , and what people say behind my back is none of my business. But for the people who played against Ill try to save some face.

First things first, I actually lost my first round match up... As in I only scored an 8, so it was not the same ole thing, I got destroyed my round 1... Destroyed....

My first round Guy had a solid list and was in position to take 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. (he was in 3rd place going into round 3, if he got max points he would of won the whole thing, and it wasn't Alex, or Bill, Or Sam) I enjoyed that game a lot.
My second fight, the guy brought a fun themed list of Orks, he got a bad match up against me. But I like to think he had fun.
My Last fight was against duel FW sicarans (he was in 5th place going into round 3) and all sorts of awesomeness in his list, it was dreadful for 2 turns for me, and honestly some how I made a strong come back. It was a great game.



Second (and thanks to Mike K, for pointing this out, It goes a along way that it is recognized)

I try to challenge my play and my game as I move further in this hobby. I try to read what the cookie cutter net list are and avoid it, then sometimes play the same army book with a totally different concept and try to win with it.... I do things during games that are completely out of left field.... A few years ago I used Bel akor or Faty in my daemons sure, then dropped using Named IC's all together. Currently, and my list from last weekends event had 1 source (Codex DE), no formations, no lords of war, no forge world, hell I didnt even get a warlord trait as I didn't have any characters in my army. (no allies BTW, no desperate, or CtA, no BB....none...)

If playing me was not enjoyable by any of my opponents, then I do apologize, because its not my intention. If it was because my list was OP, then please let me know, I actually would welcome that feedback in all honestly.

As for your post, from behind a mask basically, it lacks integrity and the point you were trying to make (which would of looked better had you just stepped up and said it like a man , or women) looks more like a tantrum throwing child, swinging wildly at his mother as she drags him away from the candy isle at Walmart.

Most though is you found a way to insult all the other players who invest the time to go to BG, You take my first round opponent and throw his win against me out the window. He won, and If I am the 'bar' sometimes at these events, then he should be congratulated even more, not insulted.
Trust me your post does not insult me in the least. I feel your anger and smile at it... But So many people were in positions to take the top spots. There was not 5 people with max points after round 2.... The restrictions and scoring is so well done now, I guess get better and practice more whoever you are. 

P.S. A few tourneys ago Alex and myself got smashed round 1 by Sam G and Ryan Dean... So in your all knowing wisdom dont count Sam Dean out for the doubles.

[robpro]

However, the fact I don't go to these events and see these same things are happening that pretty much always have been the default outcomes, I can see why this poster is frustrated. But that is hardly the store's fault, really. It's more the way 40k events are typically run is archaic, and the design basicallly cuts out the bottom 80-90% of players from contention almost from the start. Side effects of the traditional approach, and having extraordinarily good players and armies to contend with exacerbates the issue.

Do you mind elaborating? There are only so many ways to run a tournament, and typically the bottom 80-90% don't receive a prize for being in the top 1-3. Painting and Player's Choice (no PC this time, tho) usually go to people in any ranking in the tournament. If you'll note this time, Dan Bunker and myself were only 1 point away from competing for 2nd/3rd, which means that there were 5 players who could have potentially taken those positions or upset for 1st going into round 3. 5 people out of 27 having a shot at 1st in the last round doesn't seem so bad to me.

The other half of that issue is that there is a network of guys at this level or who want to be at this level and if you are someone who just plays this game without the severity of aspiring to national championship level you are generally not included in the approach, execution, or winner's circles of a given event in this environment. Leveling a critique like this (especially in the tone of that post) just gets you a lot of "bro do you even 40k" type shit in response. So whoever he is, he just learned something I did a long time ago -- talking about event reformation here is barking up the wrong tree.

Sam and Chase are pretty good at incorporating constructive feedback and they even ran an event with super heavies using some missions I helped create back when Escalation dropped (but before 7th, I forget when). I unfortunately couldn't make it to that event, but I think the handful that showed up had fun.  They even ran an attacker/defender tournament with missions another regular created.

If you have a specific critique or concern, and are willing to articulate it descriptively and constructively, I'm sure they would like to hear it. BG runs the most varied events of any game store I have regularly attended events for, and they run them quite frequently.

[Benjamin]

In part because I wanted to and in part because the scene is very competitive, it's why I always liked to design those unusual events like 500 points and Attacker/Defender. It gave the community a chance to see and play something different.

I think what disappoints me most about the problem post here is a strong desire not to play and learn against some of the best players in the area. What's a win really if you didn't beat the best? Would the person be happier if BG handed out participatory trophies to everyone?

Anyway, it's a well-known fact that you can't please some people, and it's pretty easy to move on from them.

[Tsilber]

 Well only 1 person if expressing a strong desire not to play, however is still playing...
As for what the community wants, you try out tourneys with various styles (like the 500 att/def) and see who turns up. When I started playing competitive all i wanted was more tourneys so i could pay $15 for 3 solid practice games.
   The ranter back on page 2 seems like a narcissist who feels he is better than he really is, or his painting deserves a second look, probably some net lister on top of it all...

 I like Chases tourney, and if my opinion is worth anything I would simply restrict to this.
A) 1 super heavy or LoW

B) D shot outside of 12" suffers a -1 to the D table

C) ANY reroll of saves should suffer a -2. not just a 2+ save. ANY saves.. because honestly only 3 armies can get it to go off on big units, Necrons, ELDAR, Daemons of Tzeentch.

Now those who play one of those armies will argue "well if you are going to nerf reroll of saves you need to nerf twin linked shooting also", save it.... Every army has access to one of the following. preferred enemy, divination, or twin linked shooting.

-Todd

[AstartesXXVI]

Do you mind elaborating?

Not particularly, but I doubt anybody here is interested.  My thoughts aren't directly relevant to the BG format or anything...just the broader "3 rounds, scores for win/loss/draw, pair by scores" skeleton of most 40k events. I just want to see some change, personally, to make it slightly more forgiving if you aren't hardcore -- just so it's more inclusive, really.

I've seen too many events that basically, for those floating folks in the middle of the scoreboard, come down to hoping other guys are equal or worse than you once you lose or draw in a round. So if you lose early, or another guy wins big early (if say massacres are worth extra points or some such), you're basically almost automatically out of contention (this is of course better these days, with varied armies and better missions).

Now if it was your goal to be a contender for top stuff this can be disappointing, but if you are someone like me who just considers it a way of measuring my own abilities its hardly an issue. A tournament is still gonna be three solid games, as Todd said. However, in this regard I'm of the mind (and perhaps wrongly, of course -- I'm not an expert here) that I've seen some where you could probably have had a "the minute you score a loss, just go home" rule and gotten similar if not identical results. But again, that's not really relevant to BG or this event -- just overall tournament design.

[Tsilber]

...not to banter with you, but I lost my first game at this event and still climbed back into second by the end... And going into the final round I dont think anyone had max points, as well as a lot of people were still in contention to place. So it is changing, a person who loses one of his 3 has a chance. Im not sure if you meant something else, but it seems like the point was moot.
  I understand a lot of peoples mentality with GW is "hurry up, SLOW DOWN!" As in give more updates, codex, rules, whatevs, then before giving anything a shot the same people are " woah.... slow down with this GW"
   BG has made some great changes. They will never please anyone, and 20+ attendance per tourney in the 3 years i been playing in them at BG is damn good.
   Keep up the good work guys, what ever standards, rules or restriction you apply know I will still come, support and have fun.

[AstartesXXVI]

...not to banter with you, but I lost my first game at this event and still climbed back into second by the end... And going into the final round I dont think anyone had max points, as well as a lot of people were still in contention to place. So it is changing, a person who loses one of his 3 has a chance. Im not sure if you meant something else, but it seems like the point was moot.

In this event, definitely was moot. I was just saying, these are sort of my usual suspects of why events can feel a little unforgiving. I didn't really mean to imply that THIS event had these problems, obviously I wasn't there. Heard very good things though. Several people in contention and a person losing a round and still pulling off a placement is great news all around.

It's possible a big part of this was because there wasn't anybody at max points, which is kind of what I was getting at -- I'm sure if there were a couple, it might have thrown things off for at least some guys who were otherwise in legit contention. Of course that isn't a problem, I just figure that is what led to some of the OP's comments. I've definitely been to some events where losing in the first round might as well have come with a ticket home.

Of course that's not really a problem, like I was saying before -- it was more just that it is kind of unforgiving at times. It is good that the field was tighter because a lot of the stuff I mentioned goes away in these cases.

All around I heard nothing but good things about the event, really. I say keep up the good work; you guys as players and BG running events are the gold standard locally, one random guy hating shouldn't change the course.

[Tsilber]

 I understand what your saying 
Thankfully for many, things are changing in the tourney scene to make it more balance, this event is a marking point of that

Hope you can show up to the next one. I just enjoy playing at BG and their tourneys, seeing the people, and getting 3 solid games in. This is my FLaGS, and favorite crowd, and Im 2 hours away.

[Nathan B]

Let's not forget that casual games exist, where you can try something new or different.

I have ONE gripe with the tourneys: the time limit. If each game got another quarter hour, we could get 5-6 rounds in more often, what with how the game speeds up when there are less units.

[Dan Bunker]

lol, just logged onto the forums and read the post from page 2.
I find it funny that this person would be mad that the same people are always placing high. As someone who consistently comes in around 4-5th place I appreciate the chance to play against players better then I am to better refine my game. Sometimes I can pull out a win but either way I can take something away from the game.
There were people with new armies that were painted very nicely. As someone who doesn't put much effort into painting lately I couldn't care less about those awards. For the record I think they got it right as Chris's army always looks fantastic.

Sam/Chase, I had a blast at the last event. please don't let that person discourage you from running events. We went months without one and I would hate to see you hold off because of that.

[Benjamin]

Sam/Chase, I had a blast at the last event. please don't let that person discourage you from running events. We went months without one and I would hate to see you hold off because of that.

That person will not discourage BG in the slightest.

[Chase]

We're used to the complaints, they're more frustrating than discouraging.  It's impossible to do anything related to 40k without someone being unhappy about something.  That's just the nature of the beast these days.

There's a lot of great feedback and perspective in this thread.  It is valuable and is being heard.

[Chase]

Todd, we're debating your suggestions on Facebook as of a couple minutes ago.

People can see the discussion here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/845161545576018/?fref=nf

[Tsilber]

 I only have facebook for my business, no personal one so I can not participate.

Just know Chase, I enjoy your events and regardless of rules or restrictions i will continue playing at your tourneys as long as I am welcome.
Cheers
-Todd

P.S. do keep me posted on how my suggestion was received.

P.S.S. i just edited my suggestion post above for the "third army" looks like i forgot to add eldar getting the reroll saves, ridiculousness on big units also, but im sure most new that was the third army i was referring to.