How to get the 40K Events you want

[DonRonaldo]

The upcoming event got locked, not a surprise when I saw the posts as they were going up, but wanted to create a thread to be constructive for us as a gaming community.  Attendance is less than it has been in previous years and there are many factors involved in this.

Having so many variations of the game for tournaments is a double edged sword.  I think we have a firm grasp on the negative edge and I know we are all really good at point out the flaws in scenarios, comp, or suggestions for what is "appropriate" to bring to an event.  I'd like to challenge this community to look at the other edge.  With all the options we have, share what you would like to see in a future event and talk with the BG staff to make it happen.

Pissing and moaning about an event that is already scheduled does nothing but divide and create factions in a small community of people.  Rather than poke holes in the event or complain how it is not for you, suggest a future event that is what you want.  The BG folks will listen and likely accommodate. 

If all you want is for straight out of the book missions at 1850 for more events, then politely ask that there be more of what you like, rather than complaining when an event is posted that you don't like. The more people talking about what they do like, makes it a lot easier to plan an event to please people than to have to consider all the things people don't like.

Give it a shot...
I really enjoyed the 1500 tournament, because the rounds were shorter.  I really like 1850 because most of the GT's are running that amount.  I like scenarios that are combined from the book, because the majority of players are familiar with them and make it easier to build a list with those factors in mind.

[Nathan B]

I'm not a tournament player yet, but from where I stand, I like the variety. If I had then the models I have now and didn't have other plans, I would have signed up for the 1500 boots on the ground. I plan to sign up for this one if my model modifications are accepted and if I can have one question answered the way I expect it. I like the variety because it keeps people from running the same deathstars or whatever every time. I don't see any good reasons to complain. With a new edition out every couple years, we ought to be tactically flexible enough to try something new.

If you want my gripe as well as my positivity, I'd say that I want to be able to bring as many detachments as I can fit in my list, as per the rules. One of these days I want to try a list which has a bunch of small 2-HQ 2-Troop detachments.

[Mike D]

I would like to see the points level stay at 1850 for singles and 1250/player for doubles.  I would like to see a third source for army's, limit it to one FOC that allows a lord of war, and 2 other types of any kind I.e. Allied, assassin, inquisition, formation.  Require formations to be from the same faction as one of the player's FOCs.  I feel this would allow a heavy variety without breaking balance.  Allow forge world, no proxys and hard copy of rules required, allow the Nova list for lords of war as this restricted the most game breaking ones.  Allow Nova list of fortifications.  Lastly mix in some wierd things every 2 or 3 months, like boots on the ground, I wanted to go to that one bad but had a family commitment.  I am open to adault discussion on any of my ideas.

[Sam]

This thread is a great idea, and it helps us a ton. I'd love to hear from old players and new, tournament players and casual, and see if we can't start pooling similar desires together to make some events people can really get behind. In some ways it's a shame that there's no way to do a "catch-all" event that everyone will jump on, but in a way that's a testament to how varied and flexible 40k can be.

From my own perspective, I know I've been seeing more people coming down to the Plainville store to play 40k for fun, which was sadly lacking in previous months. I think 7th edition has given us a new, interesting environment to work in, with the option to make events that are as silly, serious, large, or small as we want. The tricky thing is, neither Matt nor I plays the game much (certainly not tournament-wise), and Chase doesn't play at all. We rely on you guys to let us know what kinds of events you want to see. I want this thread to live forever, if only because it makes it way easier for us to give you guys the events you would like to play in.

[steelforge]

What I would like, exciting question.

I'd like the following.

To have a fun game of 40K.
What defines fun?  I define fun as after having completed a game, you have the desire to play another.  Tournaments that start at 9 and end at 9 and I'm on my feet for 12 hours and leave completely wiped are not fun.

To play against new and engaged players.
At tournaments I play the same 6 people.  Games need new players to thrive.
At the same time the current 40K environment has an impossible entry bar to new players.
Buying, assembling and painting 1850 worth of models is the investment of thousands of dollars and months of work.

In an environment where I can spent $60 on a video game for immediate fun or $100 and be ready to play X-Wing in a few minutes 40K is a non-starter for new people.
An ideal engaging format would be that with a box or two of the Start Kits or Army Box the player could play.  After their first tourney game they'd see that some Centurions would make their army better or they really like the cool Farsight model they'd seen and pick one up for next time.

We need to lower the bar to allow new people to play the game.  I realize we are graced with a highly engaged core of 40K players who play on a national level.  They're wonderful, but growth in terms of new players is needed.

Reduce the need for more and longer games
1850 points in terms of 7th edition is 2250+ in terms of 5th/6th edition.  Point deflation has lead to larger armies, longer games,  I realize 1850 is the American standard for tournaments.  Not every 40K player is wanting to play on a national circuit.  Have low point/wacky events for new/bored players and 1850's for those dedicated people.  I've found 1250-1500 is perfect as you can have some fun elements in your list but not go completely bonkers.

Bracketing
Divide prize support.  This is not American Exceptionalism where everyone gets a trophy for showing up.  It's to encourage those people not at the top tier to keep coming.
Use the formula of 35% 30% 25% 10% for prize support broken down thusly.


35% for Top Bracket 1st (20%) 2nd (15%)
30% for Player's Choice (15%) and Best Painted (15%)
25% for 2nd Bracket 1st (15%) 2nd (10%)
10% for 3rd Bracket 1st (7%) 2nd (3%)

That's what I'd do.

[GrimSnik]

As far as structure goes, I tend to favor smaller point matches in the 750-1250 range for events. mostly because you get to play 4-5 sixty-ninety minute games. it's nice to play against new people and armies you haven't seen before; so shorter games can accommodate that easier. I do also enjoy the larger point events, but with almost 20 years of 40K behind me, I've grown to prefer the shorter venue.

as for the format between a narrative or straight out of the book style missions and theme, I'm ok either way for the most part because I like the variance. I'd get a little bored only playing one style too much.

the only other thing I experience with Battleground is the location differential. I'm far closer to Abington than Plainville so it's easier by far to make events in Abington.

[MM3791]

Buying, assembling and painting 1850 worth of models is the investment of thousands of dollars and months of work.

Maybe $500-$600, definitely not thousands.

1850 points in terms of 7th edition is 2250+ in terms of 5th/6th edition.  Point deflation has lead to larger armies, longer games,

Points deflation. Points deflation is definitely a way to sell more models by making the game bigger. It actually makes the model kit worth less in terms of gameplay. Smaller games makes it easier to start and play, GW has already started doing this with fantasy.

Firepower inflation. Remember when shooting and combat armies were reasonable in power? It seems over the editions the amount of long range, AP2 blast weapons have increased dramatically, and CC units are almost non-existent. This might be more related to the ability to spam the same unit, to the point that you end up subconsciously building your army around your 3 heavy slots. I'm not saying things like riptides or wraithknights are overpowered, I don't have a problem killing them. It's just that it makes the meta game very predictable.

I think I'd like to see more niche events, I thought the Boots on the Ground was a very cool idea. I'd also like to see more campaigns, where other factors are taken into account.. such as strategic and economic skills.

[NateT]

I like the for fun "mini-games," like Monster Mash, Inquisitor's Ball, the Walker one, and of course, Tanksgiving!

More stuff like this is always good.  Low pressure, chance to buy and pair new models, have fun and build community.

[Chase]

I like the for fun "mini-games," like Monster Mash, Inquisitor's Ball, the Walker one, and of course, Tanksgiving!

More stuff like this is always good.  Low pressure, chance to buy and pair new models, have fun and build community.

Several of those are coming soon. 

[PhoenixFire]

I think the biggest point that everyone (or most everyone since this is the internet) can agree on is we need more people in this hobby.

I don't know if it's the rapid fire editions or the GW price hikes or its just an off few years is to blame but I remember when the events would have a full 40 people playing and that has certainly not been the case lately.

I think the more casual events helps to bring in new players and personally I have more fun doing the "oddball" events than I do at the 1850s.

That being said you can't alienate the hard core players either and it really needs to be a balancing act.

BG has always been great about doing 1850 primer events just before the major tournaments, if I was in charge of planning events it would go something along the lines of this.

Jan: 1850 templecon primer
Feb: doubles tournament
Mar: 1850 adepticon primer
Apr: trios tournament
May: 2500 singles
Jun: 1000 singles
Jul: oddball event
Aug: 1850 nova primer
Sep: oddball event
Oct: 1850 battle for salvation primer
Nov: 1850 daboyz primer
Dec: oddball event

Just examples but here's 12 months of gaming, and nothings stopping Chase from doing more than 1 event a month (for example doing a casual event when the hard core guys are away for a gt)

In the next few months I would love to see the following

Doubles or trios: BG Hasent done trios in years partly because getting 3 people together for a team isn't the easiest but I assure you trios is great fun.

Some kind of campaign:
Plainville tried to run the vogen? Vogel?  Campaign a couple years ago but couldn't get enough interest.
Abington ran that storms and shadows campaign that went to conclusion but was overly complicated and had a lot of drama.

If there's a somewhat basic campaign that could draw in new players as well as being fun for vets I for one would be all over it.

[Chase]

Some kind of campaign:
Plainville tried to run the vogen?

We might be revisiting this shortly...

[andalucien]

I would love it if you would rent a warehouse near Exeter, NH and host a giant tournament there.  Just my 2 cents.

[Pat.H]

Some kind of campaign:
Plainville tried to run the vogen?

We might be revisiting this shortly...

Ohhh this would be awesome if true.

[GossWeapon]

I haven't played the game in a long time, not that I don't want to.  I think that scaling down the points would open the game to more players.  Restricting the amount of options is a big part of this too.  After one ally, the options added to the game make my head spin.  If there were more 'Old School' 1250/1500 point events with one core FOC army and an ally, I would build something and play much more again.  But with titans, dataslates, special formations, allies, inquisition, etc.  it is just too much and overwhelming for anyone to get into or return to.  If you catered to the old people and classic tournament people that used to show up almost every event, I think you would see a great deal more success.

Also, there are magic and board game articles on the main page of the battleground site, why not welcome some folks from the Warhammer and Warmachine communities to write some articles, hype, and meta analysis. I think it adds a bit of excitement that the forums can't properly handle.

Anyways thats my two cents.

Thanks,
Dave

[AstartesXXVI]

Adhering to older, preferred styles is exactly why the scene is the way it is. And 1850 is a lot of work, true, but it is the tournament scene (and how it brazenly speaks for the entire length and breadth of 40k all the time) that have made this a standard.

To new players who've never played a previous edition, the detachments mechanism will be a non-issue. As a store you want NEW players, not established ones -- established ones use the same models for 10 years, and grumble whenever things change such that they have to adjust. These people do not buy models like new players who want to try everything, or new players who are building armies without the constraints of old fluff or prejudices. It's a win-win all around -- the business flourishes, the meta shifts, everyone works on their armies and thus buys more, and things just generally flesh out and stop being stagnant.

Not to mention, whenever you add arbitrary restrictions, you are just bolting rules to rules. For example, the CAD+Allies thing a lot of tourneys are doing now, basically states [The Normal rules], but for this event [the event rules].

I mean, look at the Battleground event announcement. It is littered with various bits in there for full disclosure. To me, if an event has that much stuff that you need to clarify, it is certain to be off-putting for new people.

Were it me, I would pair a lot of these things into general Battleground policies, and reduced to simple links in the announcement. I would also try to generally do a little less, if your goal is to be inviting. Here, have a look:

This event will be capped at 18 players.

Rule Books:
The Warhammer 40,000 SEVENTH Edition Rules will be used.

The following is a list of legal army choices:
Codex: Blood Angels
Codex: Chaos Daemons
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
Codex: Grey Knights
Codex: Dark Angels
Codex: Dark Eldar
Codex: Eldar
Codex: Imperial Guard
Codex: Imperial Knights
Codex: Necrons
Codex: Orks
Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Space Wolves
Codex: Tau Empire
Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Adepta Sororitas
Coedx: Inquisition

All **faction specific** supplements and dataslates will be allowed in this event unless otherwise noted.  You will have to provide those rules to the TO upon submission of your army list, however.


MODELS AND POINTS:

1. Each player must bring a BATTLE-FORGED army consisting of 750 points or fewer (735 min), in accordance with these rules.

• Armies may be constructed from a maximum of 2 Detachments (as defined in the 40K BRB), no more than one of which may be a CAD.

• Allied Detachments may be selected from the same Faction as the Primary Detachment.

• Formations are permitted as one of the 2 detachments, but not Apocalypse or Fortification Formations.

• Detachments may be produced from a maximum of one Codex / Codex Supplement.

• A limit of one Imperial Knight model is allowed.

Selected units that alter Force Organization selections WILL affect all other detachments from the same codex. For example, a Space Marines Master of the Forge allows all detachments using Codex Space Marines to take Dreadnoughts, Venerable Dreadnoughts and Ironclad Dreadnoughts as Heavy Support choices as well as Elites choices.

2. All models must follow “What You See Is What You Get” (WYSIWYG). All weapons, war gear, and so forth must be represented on the model unless otherwise approved (see number 3).  Your models do not need to be painted but they do need to be FULLY assembled.

3. Pictures of conversions or "counts as" models must be emailed to the Tournament Organizer.  There is an expectation that your conversions or "counts as" models are "hobby quality."  No "toys" will be allowed.

4. Psychic Powers - There will be no changes to the Psychic Phase or Psychic Powers for this event.

5. Forge World and Imperial Armor lists that are 40k Approved will be legal for this event.  If you list contains FW or IA models, lists, or units, you MUST submit the rules and point cost for them when you send in your list.

At the event, players MUST have a hard copy of the Forge World / Imperial Armour rules if they wish to field that unit. NO EXCEPTIONS.

6. Lords of War will not be legal for this event.

7. Fortifications - Players fielding fortifications must provide a hard copy of the rules governing the chosen piece (from Stronghold Assault) and be familiar with the FAQ where necessary. The following Fortifications from Stronghold Assault will be legal for this event:

       • Aegis Defense Line
       • Imperial Bastion
       • Skyshield Landing Platform
       • Firestorm Redoubt
       • Vengeance Weapons Battery

8. We will require that each player submits his army list to a Battleground Tournament Organizer on or before Monday, September 22nd (roughly a week before the event). We ask that players email their lists to ChaseLaq@gmail.com as soon as they are finalized. We are going to do our best to check every list before the event begins.

9. If illegal units or other rules violations are found in a player’s army list, at a minimum, the models in violation will be removed from all subsequent play. In addition, tournament points may be deducted and/or award eligibility may be forfeited. If in doubt, please ask for clarification in advance from a Battleground Tournament Organizer.

That is a wall of text that even I as a seasoned player look at and go, "Meh." At heart a tournament is supposed to be a few rounds of 40k with scores for winning, playing nice, and looking nice. This whole thing is overly concerned with specifics and it makes me not really want to bother, because it is clear the community has a VERY specific way to play. I know it is barely different from most places, of course, but that is not what people think when they see 10 paragraphs of additional rules governing the army you can use. They think, "Wow that is a lot of stuff. Meh." and don't bother. This is how you end up in the predicament that only people who really want to play in tournaments come to the events; they will play regardless of restrictions or rules (and will complain about them afterward regardless as well). There's no point further catering to that crowd and continuing to isolate the meta game to the top 5-10% of players.