Author Topic: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...  (Read 4456 times)

Typhus

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Re: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2014, 10:43:37 AM »
"Unless otherwise noted, all Psykers, other than those belonging in the Tyranids Faction (p.118) can generate powers from the Daemonology Discipline"

So...back to Horrors having Malefic.
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Pat.H

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Re: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2014, 11:50:14 AM »
"Unless otherwise noted, all Psykers, other than those belonging in the Tyranids Faction (p.118) can generate powers from the Daemonology Discipline"

So...back to Horrors having Malefic.

And weirdboyz summoning flesh hounds. And probably dying a lot in the process but still, flesh hounds.
Should the miserable Grot crews survive for long they will soon become deafened and have to resort to a rudimentary system of sign language. This is rarely successful as there are only so many signs a Grot can carry around with him.

andalucien

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Re: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2014, 11:32:22 AM »
Upon first reading of the psychic rules.... it looks like if you have more mastery levels than your opponent, you will often be able to completely lock them out of using any powers.   Interesting.

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Zaroth

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Re: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2014, 11:55:56 AM »
You might get more dice with more mastery, but they need 4+, while you need 6 (unless the power targets a unit with a psyker).  You might slow an opponent down with more mastery,  but you probably won't stop them.

shwnlyns

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Re: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2014, 01:09:46 PM »
Any news about what an army without psychers can do to not get blow away in the magic phase?

andalucien

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Re: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2014, 02:27:58 PM »
You might get more dice with more mastery, but they need 4+, while you need 6 (unless the power targets a unit with a psyker).  You might slow an opponent down with more mastery,  but you probably won't stop them.

Yes, but - the risk of them failing to cast a spell in the first place seems high, and you only need to use your dispell dice if they actually succeed in casting the spell!

Let's say you're playing against an army that has only a lvl 2 librarian.   And I have Fateweaver and a level 3 Daemon prince in my army.

His turn.  He rolls a 3, so he gets 5 warp charge points, and I get 10.
Let's say he decides to cast a level 2 spell and a level 1 spell.
He's going to need to throw 4 dice at level 2 spell and 1 die at the level 1 spell.
Odds are against both of them going off.  The level 1 spell has a 50% chance of failure, level 2 spell has like a 25% chance of failure.

If the level 2 spell gets cast first, and goes off successfully, as the defender I'll just throw all 10 of my dispel dice at it.  Odds are about 60-70% that I'll dispel it.   And then the librarian still has a 50-50 shot of failing his level one spell after that.

If the level 2 spell fails (not uncommon), now as the defender I have all 10 dispel dice to throw at the remaining spell.

And remember.... we're used to seeing Daemon armies with WAY more dispel dice than this.  In 6th it wasn't at all uncommon to see 19 mastery levels on the table rather than the 7 in this example (4 max heralds, fateweaver, daemon prince).  That will just shut down anyone who only brings 1 or 2 psykers of their own.  It's a new and interesting dynamic for sure.
 

Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

andalucien

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Re: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2014, 02:32:08 PM »
Any news about what an army without psychers can do to not get blow away in the magic phase?

You get a d6 dispel dice even if you have no psykers.  So you have a decent chance of dispelling a level 1 spell, and a longshot of stopping a level 2 spell.  And you know how many dice you have to work with before deciding which spell to try to stop.
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

shwnlyns

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Re: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2014, 07:10:26 PM »
You get a d6 dispel dice even if you have no psykers.  So you have a decent chance of dispelling a level 1 spell, and a longshot of stopping a level 2 spell.  And you know how many dice you have to work with before deciding which spell to try to stop.

kool kool, how about special rules like adamentium will? Me thinks that must have underwent some form of change to be relevant. Basically I'd just like to know if my dream of a Black Templar army would stand any chance on the table top in this psychic phase day in age. 

AstartesXXVI

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Re: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2014, 07:27:20 PM »
Got the book yesterday and can confirm that Adamantium Will makes your dispel dice get +1, needing 5's.

However you don't get this bonus when dispelling a blessing -- no bonuses are applied to dispel dice unless the unit is targeted by the power.

However, that being said, it will probably be self-policing...the daemonology disciplines give perils very easily for all armies except GK and Daemons themselves, and the Perils table is all "take a nearly unsaveable wound plus [additional bad thing]." So people are going to be wanting to spam dice to ensure their powers go off, and it seems like the dispel dice are going to be less responsible for canceling some things like blessings than straight-up failing the tests are. I expect to see a lot more failed psychic powers, or a lot more perils for those must-have ones.

Also, I mean...the idea of the psychic phase crushing your army is a little bit off. At worst, they get off all their powers, and they aren't THAT different than their old counterparts are...so I mean...it is hardly a "you auto lose if no psykers" situation.
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robpro

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Re: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2014, 08:34:15 PM »
Also, I mean...the idea of the psychic phase crushing your army is a little bit off. At worst, they get off all their powers, and they aren't THAT different than their old counterparts are...so I mean...it is hardly a "you auto lose if no psykers" situation.

Yeah, it's not like Vortex grenades are good or anything.

It's nice that psykers that were ld8-10 are more likely to fail now than before, we'll have to see how this changes up the meta.

AstartesXXVI

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Re: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2014, 09:18:47 PM »
The vortex is subject o all the strength D nerds not to mention all the barriers to the power actually getting rolled and actually going off, so I don't even think it will be a big deal.
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MM3791

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Re: potential problem with the psychic phase balance...
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2014, 09:49:34 PM »
Doesn't matter if you have no psykers, anyway you slice it you still have a lot better chances of dispelling then a lousy 6+ deny the witch. In 6th ed, almost 100% of powers would go off and there was no perils table, in 7th I image only about 50% of powers will go off, and has a Perils chart to boot.

andalucien

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Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.