Author Topic: The Future of BG 40k Events  (Read 14750 times)

MM3791

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2014, 02:07:54 PM »

AstartesXXVI

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2014, 02:15:51 PM »
I've been saying what Ben is saying the whole time, the rules of the game or the approach of the company really do not matter. It is the players and the attitude and approach that put models on the table in social situations.

The last year hurting anyone happened because people decided to let it, it was the most different year in 40k history, but the game had things added to it, all of which were optional...they really didn't hurt. A game growing doesn't mean it's ruined. What hurt was no one being able to establish a competitive standard. And all the vinegar-pissing that went on instead of that establishing process.

The same old topics came up during that vinegar-pissing, too. The stuff I've heard for years and years now. "GW is so stupid! They are ruining the game!" Completely unsubstantiated claims of personal preference that get turned into "facts" by the Warhammer 40k echo chamber. The fellow from earlier is right -- I have heard this since time immemorial. Why, the first post on the 7th Ed launch party is someone flipping out that they are quitting.

Ben is right -- it really isn't about the rules. It is about the attitude and approach. Magic isn't such a popular tournament game because people stand around patting each other on the back about how bad it is, or about how their declining tournament attendance is the game/developer/latest add-on's fault.

Talking about the "competitive ball" and how he supposedly haven't got a grasp of it -- Hey, maybe not. But he is attempting to do what needs to be done -- trying to move forward and get some consistency established. For that, at least, he'd be commended, because all I ever see anyone else do (at least on these boards as an outsider looking in), is talk talk talk -- shooting things down, nay-saying, etc. People rarely have suggestions or initiative; they just tell you why it will all fail, and frankly it's rarely true.

This is the way the 40k community is. Anything that doesn't fit their narrow personal mold is hand-waved away as the all-but-certain doom of the game.

I learned a long time ago the hard way that you have to have conviction to make this work. This is 40k -- you can't take a breath without alienating someone. You have to try and do what you think serves the most interests, and accept that 70% or 80% happy playerbase is better than 0%. It's good to prompt the discussion and take those first steps.
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Ian Mulligan

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2014, 06:36:54 PM »
The fallacies in that post are astounding.
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robpro

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2014, 06:47:29 PM »
I think maybe you should play at an event or two at BG. It's like you're summing up things other people have said and then inserting your thoughts like they're group consensus, when to my knowledge you haven't participated in anything with this group in person in at least two years.

Grandmaster Steve

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2014, 07:51:33 PM »
when the new edition comes out ill be enjoying re-enacting battles with Derrek of Necrons vs Minotaur Space Marines.

Grandmaster Steve

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2014, 09:31:48 PM »
To many people complain about 40k people should just play and have fun!

AstartesXXVI

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2014, 10:11:38 PM »
The fallacies in that post are astounding.
And I see you have not mentioned any of them because they are so obvious.

I think maybe you should play at an event or two at BG. It's like you're summing up things other people have said and then inserting your thoughts like they're group consensus, when to my knowledge you haven't participated in anything with this group in person in at least two years.
There is a reason for that, and it's been pretty obscured by the fact that everyone seems to think I am just some intruder instead of a person looking to reconnect and get things back to where I enjoyed them.

Since I came to this forum, the discussions wildly alternate between referencing the whole game as it ever existed EVERYWHERE and the bubble in which BG playerbase exists anyway. It's very effective because at any time I make a perfectly valid statement folks can just bring up that I haven't been there in a minute and discard it.

I log in, see people discussing about some aspect of the game or event planning or what have you...then I offer my thoughts on those very same things everyone else is talking about, and people get all like "Whoa bro what issues? What complaints? Who do you think you are? You don't play here, you don't know."

Like I said before: I am a semi-competitive player who used to come to the events, and stopped. Isn't the opinion of that sort of guy what you want/need? And even if not...what, so everyone else gets to generalize about the game and be given the benefit of the doubt, but I don't?

If you get nothing else about me, this is the one thing to take away: I care about THE GAME, not the store. And THE GAME needs some sensibly-run, inclusive, FUN local events. Battleground events are the centerpiece of the local event scene (or were, anyway). I want that back. I want a reason to support this store instead of avoid it (or worse, convert people away from supporting it, which would frankly be easier at this point than trying to be helpful). It is the ONE thing I can't do with my own club, because it is just too much work for one person. This means, other than the odd Pandemonium or Dorka Morka event, there pretty much are none other than BG's. So why wouldn't I legitimately want to try and be helpful?

Regardless, playing there before means nothing going forward; on May 24th, we're all newbies again (I wonder if my opinion will be considered any more or less legitimate at that point). I know nobody cares about my opinion, but my last word on the subject regardless is this:

A new edition is a clean slate, and people shouldn't waste that opportunity.
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Benjamin

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #52 on: May 18, 2014, 03:59:31 AM »
I've been saying what Ben is saying the whole time, the rules of the game or the approach of the company really do not matter. It is the players and the attitude and approach that put models on the table in social situations.
Here I need to clarify something. I have focused on the community aspect, because that's one thing I can hope to affect.

However, the rules and a company's approach do matter a great deal. What has happened to the 40k community is simple cause and effect. Rapid-fire rules changes drastically impacted the game, while distribution seemed determined to nickel-and-dime the customer. Players argued about which changes needed to be made, and more changes came before anyone could breathe. As frustrations hammered down and prices went up (AGAIN), disregard for the changes fed into a disregard for the community. I hoped changing expectations would alleviate some of those frustrations, but that was clearly a misjudgment on my part.

There is cautious optimism that 7th can be a return to form, that the game can accommodate competitive play as easily as it can casual play. So maybe by June, a new direction will emerge that can lead all players to a better game.

Benjamin

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2014, 04:23:37 AM »
You're wondering aloud about your disconnect with people here, and then you write this.

If you get nothing else about me, this is the one thing to take away: I care about THE GAME, not the store.

You will need to understand that people here care about the store, because the store and the community are to us one and the same. We're not here out of self-interest. Our interest is in the other people in the BG community.

An equivalent to what you've said here would be someone going to the Evil Dice forum and posting, "I don't care about Evil Dice, only about what Evil Dice can do for me." You might commend the honesty, but I do not believe you would appreciate the sentiment.

Pat.H

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2014, 11:08:50 AM »
It might not be a bad idea to look at running more league type events. With the way the rules are supposedly going to be you could have different types of leagues like an unbound armies league, a war forged or whatever it was called league, super heavies league etc. You could do a newbs league or a veterans league. It gets people in the store playing 40k in a competitive setting without the stress of organizing and running a tournament.

Honestly I don't think the whole concept of unbound armies has to make the game less competitive. If you use a positive komp type system you could come up with some pretty interesting events. Like a mechanized type event where you get bonus komp points for having 50% of the points in you army comprised of non flyer/ dedicated transport vehicles. Or something like the power armour event. A person whose army doesn't normally have access to vehicles or power armour could still do this by running an unbound army. A type event where you are given a certain amount of extra points to bid on various models and wargear form various codexes in an auction type setting. The possibilities are endless.
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MM3791

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2014, 11:11:28 AM »
It's like you're summing up things other people have said and then inserting your thoughts like they're group consensus

How is that different from the opening post?

Benjamin

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2014, 11:43:39 AM »
It's like you're summing up things other people have said and then inserting your thoughts like they're group consensus

How is that different from the opening post?
From my post? Really? I made it pretty clear what I putting out there were my ideas and the direction I wanted to take. I asked players for their thoughts and feedback, a question from which one implies I don't invoke their opinions as authority. Everything is framed as "could/would happen," and distinctly not "will happen."

If any sort of group is implied, it's only from my drawing inspiration from my observations of the community and my personal conversations with players.

MM3791

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2014, 12:37:49 PM »
Pardon good Ser I meant no offense, I just failed to see a difference. The opening post assumes that the game is "no longer competitive" and insinuates to players to not "fight the tide". Perhaps a BG poll would be more effective at making your point to people whom are not regulars at all the BG tournements and weekly gatherings. However it would be best to gather that data AFTER the release of the new edition.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 12:40:39 PM by MM3791 »

steelforge

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2014, 02:56:06 PM »
It's the internet, no one will agree.

@AstartesXXVI it's obvious you care about 40K.  You should start a club or something.  Or come to BG once an ever.

People complained it was 4 years between editions, now it's two.  People complained about only 4 Codexs a year, now we get 8.  Boo-hoo.  GW doesn't share information.  Now we have Youtube videos about the new edition. 

The important part is put on your big boy pants and bring and play your plastic mans. 

Benjamin

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2014, 03:08:45 PM »
Perhaps a BG poll would be more effective at making your point to people whom are not regulars at all the BG tournements and weekly gatherings.
I'm not dumbing things down. If you want a say, be active, be involved.