Author Topic: The Future of BG 40k Events  (Read 14531 times)

MM3791

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2014, 06:43:50 AM »
Most people just pay folks egregious money

Well they're certainly not going to do it for free, plus I like to drink in my leisure and I can't do both at the same time.

keithb

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2014, 08:41:37 AM »
I don't think people like me should be punished for publicly coming out to the world, I play the game for the rules.. not to be in a painting contest. At the end of the day it's my money and I'll spend it however I like, if I want to hire someone to do something for me then I will. I personally think painting should be left out entirely of any type of game tourney scene, have a separate hobbying contest without any gaming at all if that's what you're shooting for.

Either way there's no way to enforce this type of thing, and if I cared about winning a painting award then I never would've said anything at all.

Who said anything about punishing you.  I don't think anyone suggested you shouldn't be able to play or win certain awards.

Grimwulfe

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2014, 08:50:31 AM »
Quote
So we will cater events toward competitive players who no longer play a game that is no longer competitive, and we will abolish all paint scores to avoid any and all impropriety.

Ben this is where I have to strongly disagree with your assessment and train of thought.  These are your opinions that the game is no longer competitive.  There are hundreds of players like myself who consider themselves competitive that still play.  BG has not had a true competitive event in a while so you tend not to see them.  Relying on thursday game numbers cant give you a true count of how many people like me are out there.  The very nature of the game is competitive regardless if some rules are trying to make it otherwise. 

I wont deny there has been a decline in gamers but that has more to do with the timing, lack of solid tournies etc.  It is fairly easy to make 40k a competitive game by not allowing titans etc.  Im not going to get into those details here as I am not trying to address that directly.  But to outright deny a large player base the tourny structure they desire is a mistake. 

For instance BG has a good event this saturday.  Will it have a large player base probably not for several factors.  Another store in CT is running a competitive event on this same day.  Where do you think players like myself and other competitive players are going to go? 

This area in general has one of the best GT going communities I have seen.  GT's are the epitome of competitive play and they are selling out left and right.  So this proves on some levels that the game is still competitive and still has a large competitive player base.

As for painting I think the best way to do it is limit the amount of time someone can win in a row if this is an issue.  I personally don't see that as one but I am a small fish in a big pond and of one mind because I am a reaper of the awards.  Do I think that Matt's rat daemons are super badass and deserve best appearance?  Hells yes I do but brother needs a display!!  LOL

Long winded I know but my point is BG had a great player base and is losing that player base because of so called non competitive views of the game.  Look at tournies like NOVA, Adepticon, Templecon all of these were able to take the game make minor adjustments and make then super competitive awesome events.  To outright ignore that and only do events that cater to non toruny friendly formats is a mistake.  It has been proven regardless of specific armies having advantages that this game can and will remain competitive.  I mean hell I took SW to Adpeticon and was able to compete with all the grav star and super tigerius SM armies out there and I claimed Best Imperial showing. Something I am super proud of and got mad props on because I did it with an older codex. 

BG's format of doing events for all competitive and non competitive is the way to keep going.  Ignoring one or the other will lose your player base. Do I wish there were more competitive events hells yes BG is super local and I prefer this store over all others.  But to get rid of competitive events will make it hard to justify me coming to BG and I am sure that is the same for people who have the same mind set as I do.
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MM3791

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2014, 09:43:11 AM »
Who said anything about punishing you.  I don't think anyone suggested you shouldn't be able to play or win certain awards.

I know, I was just trying to emphasize the role painting should play  ;)

So we will cater events toward competitive players who no longer play a game that is no longer competitive

I would say many national tournament organizers would disagree with you. Here's a good article from gamers that make a living selling GW products, as well as organizing competitive events.. and why they're not worried about any upcoming changes. http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2014/05/15/zen-and-the-art-of-edition-maintenance/

« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 09:44:57 AM by MM3791 »

Grimwulfe

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2014, 10:27:24 AM »
A good read for sure and an important part to note.

Quote
If this edition is good or bad, the wheels will roll on and and we will continue to come together to enjoy the camaraderie of our hobby. We can make adjustments to any rules we truly don’t like, and we can alter how we play to accommodate. We can also just choose to play other games, too. The friendships we share with one another are what make table top games special, the actual games we are playing are really just window dressing.
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Battleground

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2014, 12:34:09 PM »
This really isn't an issue. Whether or not there are painting requirements for tournament entrants is not even on the radar of reasons related to attendance. In fact, NOT having painting requirements for entrants has historically only helped attendance. Allowing people to begin playing with their purchased merchandise right away is a positive thing. It takes time to paint an army, as you all well know, and I don't want anyone to not be able to play in an event because they ran out of time to finish painting that last unit.

In my opinion, painting awards should continue to operate as they always have. It provides an encouragement for people to paint their armies, while not telling people they can't play until they finish doing so. So you don't like playing against somebody's unpainted army (especially when they end up beating you)? I get it, but you'll live.

Undeniably, modeling is an inseparable part of the hobby we're talking about here. Creating awards to promote that part of the hobby is totally appropriate, and really hasn't ever been an issue. Nor has it been an issue where the same person wins over and over and over again. More than once, we've had someone who was going to win "Best Appearance" not submit their army for grading because they had won the previous time and were playing with the same army again. That's sportsmanship.

This is one of those self-policing type of situations and is usually handled in a conversation on the day of the event. If someone wants to win a painting contest with an army they didn't paint, that's basically their problem. If it's one of your friends submitting it under false pretenses, you should be busting their balls for it and publicly outing them so they can be properly ridiculed.
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Benjamin

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2014, 02:27:59 AM »
The very nature of the game is competitive regardless if some rules are trying to make it otherwise.

I found some of those rules trying to make the game less competitive.

"Your job isn't to follow the rules, it's also to add your own ideas, drama and creativity to the game. Much of the appeal of this game lies in the freedom and open-endedness that this allows; it is in this spirit that the rules have been written." - BRB, Page 8

"At its heart, a game of Warhammer 40,000 is a shared experience between two fellow hobbyists - and it should be as enjoyable and fulfilling for both players as possible." - BRB, Page xv

robpro

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2014, 02:31:00 AM »
I bet my 40k experience with Troy is way more fulfilling than yours.

Benjamin

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2014, 02:40:07 AM »
I bet my 40k experience with Troy is way more fulfilling than yours.
I don't even know what that is supposed to mean or even infer. All I get from that statement is somehow now gaming experiences are becoming competitive, whose time was more fulfilling than someone else's.

ETA: It occurs to me that this may have been a joke?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 02:57:29 AM by Benjamin »

Bill

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2014, 07:59:40 AM »
I am just going to leave this here.

I am not fan of what 40k has come to or where the game is right now on the GT scene. I still however love competitive 40k at BG because the meta is completely different and it isn't all absurd deathstars, with a couple notable exceptions. I can bring an army I think is cool and still feel like I have a chance as opposed to a GT I need to bring something specific.

I haven't been to BG is a while because it has been a long time since I have seen a standard, competitive RTT event. Pull from that sentence what you will. I am sure Derek and Chase will know what that means. I also haven't been buying GW from products from anywhere else so they can take from that sentence what they will =P.

As far as appearance awards; I have armies I have painted myself and armies I have had others paint. I DO accept appearance awards for the ones I have painted but I DO NOT for those that I have had pro painted despite any work I may have put into them. Troy is clear that he did not paint the lions share of his army and it is at his discretion if he wants to receive an award and it is at the discretion of the TO to decide if he should be in the running so this discussion is irrelevant.

Benjamin

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2014, 12:01:11 PM »
Bill, I know many players who share those sentiments, almost exactly.

It's just an unfortunate time in which for as many people want to play competitively, there are that many conflicting ideas about how to make it so. I figured with so many people fighting the tide and each other, they'd be as tired as I am of that struggle. This thread I suppose has shown there's still plenty of fight, though.

Really, someone just needs to pick up the competitive ball and run with it. It's pretty obvious to all involved that I don't know what the competitive ball even looks like any more.

the_trooper

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2014, 12:10:26 PM »
It's pretty obvious to all involved that I don't know what the competitive ball even looks like any more.

From what I understand, it resembles a giant katamari ball.

MM3791

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2014, 12:47:37 PM »
It's pretty obvious to all involved that I don't know what the competitive ball even looks like any more.

How can anyone know what the competitive ball looks like if *no one* has played with the new 7th ed rules yet?  :o

blantyr

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2014, 01:01:21 PM »
I've been playing elsewhere lately, where the air is more mellow and the competitive urges suppressed.  The angst I'm seeing on these boards is missing.  I did speak to another long timer though.  We agreed that as long as we've been involved in 40K, there has always been a crisis due to the perception of non-competitive unbalanced rules, and there is always an impending crisis as GW management is so lousy that the company can't possibly survive much longer.

And yet, here we are.

I'll note that three of my 40K armies were once one.  My Guard, Marines and Demons were once cultists, marines and demons under one force org.  I've been looking for an opportunity to reunite them...
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 01:03:52 PM by blantyr »

Benjamin

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Re: The Future of BG 40k Events
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2014, 01:24:42 PM »
It's pretty obvious to all involved that I don't know what the competitive ball even looks like any more.

How can anyone know what the competitive ball looks like if *no one* has played with the new 7th ed rules yet?  :o
Because it's not just about the rules. The past year did a great deal of damage to the community.

It is very true with the competitive events I've seen at BG, the more, the merrier. We all want the rooms with 40+ players again. It's going to take a long time (and at least $85) to bring each player back, if they decide to come back at all. There's a lot of "wait and see and save money" vibe among the players with whom I talk.