Thoughts on the new IG book?

[Chase]

Info dump here, please.

[Typhus]

HQ's
- Command Squads are more expensive, but only by five points and probably because orders are better now (see below). Officers of the Fleet are a bit cheaper and better (basically they combine the old OotF and Astropath reserve roll modifiers into one model), Masters of Ordnance are cheaper and the same, and Astropaths are cheaper but not great (ML 1 Psyker with Telepathy, but good for giving a 5+ Deny the Witch on the command squad). Oh, but Carapace Armor and Camo Gear are now half price. So that's pretty awesome.

- Speaking of Command Squads, orders switched up too. Bring it Down now grants Monster or Tank Hunters as opposed to Twin Linked (which, combined with the ready availability of Prescience, is waaaay better). Fire on My Target went from forcing re-rolls on Cover Saves to Ignores Cover. Awesome! Get Back in the Fight is exactly the same. Overall, much better.

- Tank Commanders are a nice addition, but not game-breaking. Tanks are weaker in 6E, so being able to take more of them isn't as incredible as it sounds. It does allow for a total of five tanks in separate units, which is nice since you don't have to lump them into squadrons. If they made Russ squadrons into Troop units, that would have been cool. But they don't. Their orders are kind of sad. Full Throttle lets them move Flat Out, going 6+D6" in the Shooting phase, which will be rarely useful. Gunners, Kill on Sight allows the Commander to fire at one unit and his unit at other targets. Strike and Shroud, the only very useful one, allows them to fire and then pop smoke. These would be fantastic if they could target other units, but they're limited to the commander's.

- Lord Commissars are pretty much the same, but Summary Execution is waaay better. Now, first, you can re-roll a Fear, Morale or Pinning test if you have a re-roll. Then you roll a D6. On a 3+ you execute any Astra Militarum model (in other words, some random grunt) in the unit. On a 1 or 2, your opponent chooses but it can't be the Commissar. Then the unit auto-passes the check. So the downside is a bad roll means your heavy weapons team or officer bites it. Still, it's after a re-roll and you auto-pass, which is nice.

- Commissars are now listed under HQ's, are 10pts cheaper, take up no Force Org slots, and you can have one for each Company or Platoon Command Squad, and start the game attached to almost any squad except Ratlings and Psykers.

- Priests are awesome. 0 - 3 per detachment and don't take up an HQ slot. Here's the big kicker - they're Zealots. Any unit they join gains Hatred and Fearless, meaning re-rolls to Hit in the first round of CC, and they DON'T have to charge! So their major benefit will now affect Ogryns (or, more importantly, Bullgryns). War Hymns can be great, but the priest's Ld7 is a major drawback. Still, the prospect of a unit of Bullgryns re-rolling failed rolls To Hit, then re-rolling their failed rolls To Wound. . .at S7. All for 25pts! They lost access to Eviscerators, though, which is sad.

- Primaris Psykers are so much better now. 0 - 3 without taking up a Force Org slot, 20pts cheaper but only lost one attack, and now they get Divination. Divination! Re-rolls, re-rolls everywhere. Even better, they can get bumped up to Mastery Level 2 for another 25pts. So for 5pts more than their previous iteration, you get two psychic powers that are actually useful AND you can have three of them for no force org obligation.

- Enginseers are pretty neat. Five points cheaper with each servitor also being five points cheaper, and they can restore Hull Points as well as fix Immobilized or Weapon Destroyed. They also have Awaken the Machine, which gives one AM unit within 12" Power of the Machine Spirit. Still can't take their own transport, though.

All in all, I feel the HQ choices got some major buffs with only a few negative changes, and even those aren't so negative. And pretty much everything got cheaper by five, ten or even twenty points

[Typhus]

- Platoon organization is the same exact setup. Platoon Commands are the same cost. Orders are much, much better. Move, Move, Move is the same. First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire is the same but with better wording. Incoming (Go to Ground with +2 to Cover Save) is lost but replaced by several other orders. Take Aim gives a unit the Precision Shots rule, so your special weapons can now snipe your enemy's special weapons. Smite at Will gives the unit Split Fire. Forwards, for the Emperor allows the unit to fire and then run (it should really be Backwards, for the Emperor, but whatevs). And Suppressive Fire gives the unit Pinning. Overall, darn awesome.

- Infantry Squads are exactly the same. Heavy Weapon Squads are a little bit cheaper. Special Weapons squads are five points cheaper, but can't take Demo Charges. Conscripts are cheaper overall (150pts for a max unit of 50), but lose the ability to take Chenkov.

- Vets are ten points cheaper (rock!), Grenadiers is fifteen points cheaper, Forward Sentries are twenty points cheaper (schwat??!!), Demolitions are the same price with the same rules. So for the same price as the old vets you can get +1 to Cover Saves and Defensive Grenades.

- Chimeras are ten points more expensive now, and function a bit differently. Same weapons and still Amphibious. Now the top hatch allows two models to fire out (with a HW team counting as one), and the lasguns on the sides count as separate weapons that can fire at separate targets. So each group of three guns can pick a separate target from the chimera AND the guys shooting out the top. So fewer heavy/special weapons firing out (which is a bummer), but the lasguns can fire at different targets, which makes sense.

- The Taurox is. . .interesting. One lower on the front armor, but fifteen points cheaper than a Chimera. Lower transport capacity (10 instead of 12), but an autocannon rather than a ML, and re-rolling failed Dangerous Terrain tests instead of Amphibious. It has two fire points on either side and two access points on each side with one at the rear. The Prime has a S7 AP4 blast, S4 AP3 Salvo 2/4 TL gun, or S4 AP - Heavy 10 gun and the same rules as above.

So not a ton of changes to Troops, but some very nice ones. Considering how weak an AV 12/10/10 vehicle is, it's kind of a bummer that the Chimera is more points. That and the fact that you lose the ability to fire more special/heavy weapons out of the hatch. Vets are definitely better now, though.

[Typhus]

- Ogryns are the same points cost with the same stat line and swapped Furious Charge for Hammer of Wrath. Ripper Guns are exactly the same.

- Bullgryns. Now these are. . .interesting. A bit more expensive than Ogryns, they have Slab Shields which give +1 Armor Save if in BtB with another model with a slab shield, and they also grant +1 Cover Save to any units they block LoS to. Their Grenadier Gauntlets are S4 AP6 Blast, so they can lay down some fire before a charge. For another 15pts, they swap those out for a Power Maul (S7. . .yeesh) and a 5++ save. At 60pts each. I think they're going to be too expensive to really be worth it, especially considering there are no Assault Vehicles in the army to keep them safe from gunfire.

- Ratlings are same cost and rules, but now they can fire and Run. Perfect for fleeing!

- Wyrdvane Psykers are slightly more expensive than the PBS and don't have an Overseer. They do, however, now have access to Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy and Telekinesis. So no more dropping Ld or strong pie plates, but they're going to be effective taken in minimum units at 60pts, slinging around more Prescience re-rolls.

- Militarum Tempestus Platoons. Yes, platoons of stomtroopers. One to three Scion squads and zero to one Command Squads. The command squad has similar options to a regular command squad minus advisers, can issue orders and scions from the same platoon within 18" get to use the commander's Ld9. And they all have Hot-shot Lasguns and BS4. For the Scions, a full squad is 130pts, which is 35pts cheaper than the old Stormtroopers. As Marc said, they lose Special Operations but retain Deep Strike and gain Move Through Cover. They also have the Hot-shot Volley Gun, which bumps a regular HS Las to S4, and is Salvo 2/4.

I feel that Ogryns are, well, the same and Bullgryns are too expensive to be effective. The rest of the Elites I like. Stormtroopers are cost-effective now. Wyrdvane Psykers lose an awesome trick but overall can be more effective in a minimum unit. 60pts for re-rolls that you can sling around is nothing to sneeze at, especially when they have five wounds to stay alive with and don't lose any effectiveness as models die.

[Typhus]

- Scout Sentinels are the same cost and same rules, but their weapon options are about five points cheaper. Armored Sentinels are waaay cheaper. 15pts off of the base cost. And plasma cannons are only 10pts. So now an Armored Sentinel with a plasma cannon is 5pts cheaper than an old one with a multi-las. Considering how fragile these things are, that's an awesome move.

- Rough Riders are exactly the same but increased in cost by one point. Weird for a unit no one uses anyway.

- Hellhound Squadrons are the same, but the points were toyed with. Hellhounds are 5pts cheaper, Devil Dogs 15pts more expensive, and Banewolves the same cost. Adding a multi-melta is 5pts cheaper now.

- Valks are 25pts more, though a lascannon and multiple rocket pods are a a tad cheaper. Vendettas jumped up 40pts and lost half of their transport capacity. Still not sure how I feel about that drastic a change. Considering the cheap fliers that Necrons can throw around, I thought 40pts a bit harsh.

Overall, not much to say here. Sentinels got way better, but they're still so damn fragile I can't say if they're worth it. Though three walking plasma cannons for 150pts with front AV12 is kind of nice. Vendettas and Valks definitely took hits.

 Russes. The ubiquitous Russ. Officially a Heavy tank now. Your regular LRMBT is still 150pts. Exterminator (autocannons) is 20pts cheaper. Vanquisher (tank killer) is also 20pts cheaper. The Eradicator (already awesome with a S6 AP4 Large Blast with Ignores Cover) dropped 40pts to 120! Demolishers went up 5pts. Hm. Punishers lost 40pts. Executioners lost 35pts. All weapon options are cheaper. So they lost a lot of cost across the board (sorry Demolisher). The only drawback I've noticed is the Executioner's main gun has Gets Hot now, but you can buy one with two plasma cannon sponsons for five points LESS than the base model in the last 'dex.

- Hydras are 5pts cheaper, but lost their Auto-targeting system (ignores Jink saves). And still no Interceptor. So a tad cheaper but nowhere near as useful for knocking down flyers.

- Medusa, Colossus and Griffon all gone. Basilisks are the same rules, same cost.

- Wyvern Batteries are a friggin' cool. Two twin-linked Stormshard Mortars. Each one fires two S4 AP6 blasts with Barrage, Ignores Cover and Shred (re-roll failed To Wound). All for 65pts. Gnarly.

- Manticores are the same but 10pts more expensive. Can't remember how it was in the last 'dex, but now each Storm Eagle Rocket counts as a separate weapon as far as Weapon Destroyed, so you can't get one lucky roll and put it out of the fight. Still limited ammo.

- Deathstrikes are the same cost. Now for clarity, you just use a 10" blast or measure 5" out from the center. I believe it still fires in the same manner.

So yeah. . .Heavy Support got a lot better. The artillery lost was seldom used and not that great anyway, and the Wyvern is a Thudd Gun on crack with lower strength. Russes are cheaper across the board with cheaper weapon upgrades, so definitely expect to see more of 'em especially combined with Tank Commanders.

[Pat.H]

How are the special characters I heard talk Marbo wasn't going to be in.

[jhobin]

Marbo is gone. All the previous character's are there. Creed lost his granting one unit scout but can choose 2 warlord traits. Yarrick is a bit better has a true invul save vs. a str reducer.

Jared's summary is right one. Big things I noticed is that plasma sentinels almost seem like an auto include for 150pts x3 AV12 walkers with plasma or lascannon's. I still don't get the wyvern, maybe just need to kick the tires on it. If FW is allowed for 10 pts you get a griffon.

Hydra's a weird one, its great anti-flyer at 75pts but the lack of interceptor and auto targeting is a loss, but its only 25 pts more than a quad gun on an aegis. So it boils down to do you want the interceptor and a Toughness value or mobility and an AV value. Tough call in my opinion.

Leman Russ took a hit as well with the loss of the lumbering behemoth rule. They are now just vehicle,Heavy. Which if I'm reading the rules correctly means that you can fire your ordnance or your sponson's. I use to take a battle tank with tri heavy bolters it was great at anti-infantry cause if the ordnance didn't get you the heavy bolters will, now it seems better to go with an exterminator or punisher with tri heavy bolters. Ordnance tanks seem better equipped to just have a single lascannon on the hull and the demolisher and eradicator would fit this configuration perfectly.   

[Typhus]

Marbo is gone. All the previous character's are there. Creed lost his granting one unit scout but can choose 2 warlord traits. Yarrick is a bit better has a true invul save vs. a str reducer.

Jared's summary is right one. Big things I noticed is that plasma sentinels almost seem like an auto include for 150pts x3 AV12 walkers with plasma or lascannon's. I still don't get the wyvern, maybe just need to kick the tires on it. If FW is allowed for 10 pts you get a griffon.

Hydra's a weird one, its great anti-flyer at 75pts but the lack of interceptor and auto targeting is a loss, but its only 25 pts more than a quad gun on an aegis. So it boils down to do you want the interceptor and a Toughness value or mobility and an AV value. Tough call in my opinion.

Leman Russ took a hit as well with the loss of the lumbering behemoth rule. They are now just vehicle,Heavy. Which if I'm reading the rules correctly means that you can fire your ordnance or your sponson's. I use to take a battle tank with tri heavy bolters it was great at anti-infantry cause if the ordnance didn't get you the heavy bolters will, now it seems better to go with an exterminator or punisher with tri heavy bolters. Ordnance tanks seem better equipped to just have a single lascannon on the hull and the demolisher and eradicator would fit this configuration perfectly.

I wouldn't even do bolters.  I would just get heavy flamer sponsons because they are cheaper, and would give you the higher chance to not lose the main gun on a weapon destroyed result.

[jhobin]

I was thinking the same thing earlier.

Was also thinking it would probably be more efficient to go with the allied inq with servo skulls, and some cheaper long range FP to reduce the scatter by a D6.

[tilarium]

Rather repeating the breakdowns and the goods and bads about them that Typhus said I'll just say that I like the codex.  It's a good attempt to clean them up and get some more use.  The one thing I was hoping to see changed but wasn't changed was rough riders.  I DO use them, I like using them, I just haven't liked using them sense the 4th because I hate power lances.  I don't like being forced to take a weapon that gets one use and is then done.  I was also hoping to be able to make mounted command squads and mounted commissars and mounted priests.  There's always 7th!

Also they took out penal legions.  I'm mostly bummed out about that because I was working on building a few squads of penal legionnaires. 

My other bum out comes from the lack of new models.  We got the the Hydra model now which is great because I can finally get some added into my army.  The Taurox looks pretty cool too and I'm thinking of getting a couple to put build and slip in to use with my Adeptus Arbite style units.  I'm loving the new look for Nork and the Bullgryn models look like fun.  The big tickets go with the biggest change in the book.  The Militarum Tempestus models just look freakin awesome!

[jhobin]

I too was working on penal legionnaires, I had a feeling they were going to be cut so I was working on Shaffer's last chancer's as a squad, my thinking was they might get data slated and then be useful worse case scenario. 

I want to like the Taurox, I just don't see a use for it. If it was fast it would be slightly better or if it even had command vehicle.

[jhobin]

Quick question regarding the wyvern. Even though there are two weapons on it each being twin linked with two small blast template's, would it not still be subject to the multiple barrage rule on page 34 in the big book?

I was under the impression this would mean you would put your first template down, scatter and then flip the other 3 off of it, right? Page 34 would also seem to indicate that if you were taking a squadron of 3 Wyvern's you would place the first and then flip the remaining 11 of of the first.

[Typhus]

Quick question regarding the wyvern. Even though there are two weapons on it each being twin linked with two small blast template's, would it not still be subject to the multiple barrage rule on page 34 in the big book?

I was under the impression this would mean you would put your first template down, scatter and then flip the other 3 off of it, right? Page 34 would also seem to indicate that if you were taking a squadron of 3 Wyvern's you would place the first and then flip the remaining 11 of of the first.

Multiple Barrage rules, so yes, your interpretation in the second paragraph is correct.

[Pat.H]

Quick question regarding the wyvern. Even though there are two weapons on it each being twin linked with two small blast template's, would it not still be subject to the multiple barrage rule on page 34 in the big book?

I was under the impression this would mean you would put your first template down, scatter and then flip the other 3 off of it, right? Page 34 would also seem to indicate that if you were taking a squadron of 3 Wyvern's you would place the first and then flip the remaining 11 of of the first.

Yep that's how it works. However since its twin linked you could reroll the initial scatter dice and 2d6.

[Typhus]

And all the flips.