Discussion 40k comp tournament

[Dan Bunker]

Great tournament today, very well run once again by the BG crew. Decent turnout with an overall very pleasant crowd. I wanted to start a thread to discuss what people thought were the good/bad of the comp system. Hopefully this can stay a decent conversation instead of going to crap.
Overall I don't think that the comp had any effect on the outcomes. Most of the people that normally were on the top tables were still there. The tournament did result in a wide range of armies which is nice to see.  I think that the comp has huge effects on some armies while a lot of older codex's have a lot of things slip through the cracks, not to mention that the daemon codex has half a dozen units that should be comped but are not. I would like to see us modify the point system to compensate for our local meta if comp is used again.
The major thing that was disappointing about this tournament was that almost all of the people that mentioned and pushed for a comp event didn't bother to play. So I guess I'm glad we tested this out for them without their input. Hopefully we learn from that and not take the input from people who haven't played 40k since 5th edition and just love to troll the BG forums.

[MM3791]

I wouldn't mess with army points, but the comped 40k system is slowly gaining traction nationwide. I personally am looking forward to playing some of the NOVA comp games. Then again some of the dataslates are really good, like the new tyranids and chaos marine formations. Scoring gargoyles, as well as deep striking Helbrutes and fearless cultists are really good.

[Dan Bunker]

what did you play in the event today?

[steelforge]

I had a good time, had three great matches.

Imperial Armor should NOT be allowed at a Comp event.

Though the Tau comp is a little too harsh.
At least let me have an Ethereal and Drone Teams if I can't take Missile Sides or Riptides.

[Chase]

I wanted to start a thread to discuss what people thought were the good/bad of the comp system. Hopefully this can stay a decent conversation instead of going to crap.

I was hoping there would be a thread up when I gave the boards a look.  Thanks for starting the discussion, Dan.  And yeah, let's keep it a clean as possible.

Overall I don't think that the comp had any effect on the outcomes. Most of the people that normally were on the top tables were still there. The tournament did result in a wide range of armies which is nice to see.

I sort of figured this would be the case.  Even if the same guys that always do well continue to do well if / when we use Komp rules it's my opinion that everyone else likes the fact that the armies are a lot different.  I'm interested to hear what people have to say going forward.

I think that the comp has huge effects on some armies while a lot of older codex's have a lot of things slip through the cracks, not to mention that the daemon codex has half a dozen units that should be comped but are not. I would like to see us modify the point system to compensate for our local meta if comp is used again.

100% agree.  The only downside I can see with some of this is that it leaves lots of room to place blame on me or our community (whereas the "blame" currently gets places on names, faceless, Swedes) when we decide that something someone loves or feels isn't very powerful gets Komped.

The major thing that was disappointing about this tournament was that almost all of the people that mentioned and pushed for a comp event didn't bother to play.

I noticed this the other night when I was going through lists.  It's sort of a shame, but it is what it is.  Strange coincidence maybe?  Personally, I figured it would be a great experiment.  Maybe some of those guys felt like they had figured out what was the clear cut "best"list(s) under the published rules and didn't want to spend time when they felt they were right.  Still, Alex won with a 0 Komp Necron list.  I think you (Dan) placed 2nd with a 3 Komp list (Tau, 2x Riptide).  Pretty neat and not what people had "figured" as far as I can tell.


What I'd like to know is if people are interested in continuing to do Komp events.  Obviously some work needs to be done, but if the community would rather not see it....... 

[Chase]

Imperial Armor should NOT be allowed at a Comp event.

This is true and a mistake I realized a couple days after I put up the event.  It won't be allowed in a Komp event again.

[The Everliving]

I take it from Dan's post that the first comment on this thread was from someone who didn't even turn up to play Dan does bring up a good point, the vocal crowd who were pushing hard for this didn't show up - something that needs to be borne in mind when deciding the format for future events.

I had a fun time as well, and probably the most rewarding thing to see about Komp was the variety of armies that showed up. The system does need to be tweaked though - it's all very well being able to blame the 'faceless Swedes' but they've left holes in the system. Tau and Eldar get hosed over too much, Necrons a little, and Daemons have loopholes that let you take a brutal cavalry list with barely any penalties.

If it's possible I would like to see more terrain, particularly LOS blocking terrain on the boards. The addition of a couple of these per table makes for a totally different game. One of the great things about the LVO was the ability to hide at least part of your army from the static gunlines which made the games less about dice-rolling (does my opponent hit and do I make my save) and more about maneuver/tactics. Tables 2 and 3 in round 3 had Tau gunlines with relatively open boards lined up against mine and Sam's lists.

Looking forward to the next one!

[MM3791]

I take it from Dan's post that the first comment on this thread was from someone who didn't even turn up to play Dan does bring up a good point, the vocal crowd who were pushing hard for this didn't show up - something that needs to be borne in mind when deciding the format for future events.

I didn't play, I was always strictly against any type of comp.

[Chase]

We can definitely do more terrain!  I'm happy to hear that at least someone wants that. 

[steelforge]

I'd actually say the terrain was perfect.

Too much helps Daemons/Bikes/White Scars/etc.

And as the guy on Table 2 with the Tau, it actually wasn't a Gunline army.  It was a Tau fast attack army.
Seriously ask Rick James how fast the army was.
But verse Beasts and Cav, there isn't much room to maneuver.

Any ideas how to better comp Daemons?

[fiesta0618]

This komp event was the best I've played in in 6th for one simple reason: it is the first one where at no point did I face down an army where I felt I had no chance of winning.  For reference, I payed zero-comp Imperial Fists.

Sure, the points system needs tweaking.  It's an iterative process by nature, and the TO can use this event to make informed chnages.

However, one thing I would agree with about the commentary that "komp didn't affect things much," but for a different reason.  It seems that the system we used was designed for a 20-point system.  Having a +-3 point swing when ~50 points were available every round doesn't make much of a dent.  As an example, I played a 3-komp O'vesa list and a 3-komp Meganob list, and was proud to earn narrow victories in the primary objective in both cases.  Once primary and secondary were added in, though, things were fairly close to a draw, and the komp difference didn't spread things much more.

Still, I can't say I'm complaining, since I HAD A CHANCE for once!  And that was totally awesome, and totally a result of the system.

[Chase]

That's a interesting point.  Initially I didn't want the difference in Komp to be a giant swing one way or another instead of a small bonus.

It was part of the reason I decided to go with 3 instead of 5 and keep the scoring more or less the same as usual.  I'm interested in more thoughts about this.

[AstartesXXVI]

I didn't attend, but I am curious how the current scoring is set up? The same "win gets X points, loss gets y points, draw gets z points" style?

[Grimwulfe]

Speaking for myself as a Komp advocate who didn't show up.  The main reason why is that Adepticon is in 2 weeks and I am going insane getting ready for it.  I would be sure this is the case for a few others.

However the feedback so far is about where I would think it is.  Tweaking is a must but that is the nature of the beast in these type of events.

[keithb]

Great tournament today, very well run once again by the BG crew. Decent turnout with an overall very pleasant crowd.

Sounds good so far.

I wanted to start a thread to discuss what people thought were the good/bad of the comp system. Hopefully this can stay a decent conversation instead of going to crap.

Lets hope so, I am eager to see how it went.

Overall I don't think that the comp had any effect on the outcomes. Most of the people that normally were on the top tables were still there.

 

The objective of the comp is not to change who wins these events.  If it did, that would be a serious point against the comp.   Generally, the most skilled players should win,  comp may change which tools they have availible, but player skill should determine the winner.

The tournament did result in a wide range of armies which is nice to see. 

This is a major benefit of the komp system,  if the playing field has been leveled somewhat, other stuff comes out to play.   Great to hear.

I think that the comp has huge effects on some armies while a lot of older codex's have a lot of things slip through the cracks, not to mention that the daemon codex has half a dozen units that should be comped but are not. I would like to see us modify the point system to compensate for our local meta if comp is used again.

This is definitely true,  I would imagine most solid players knew this as well.  The komp is not perfect, and the 40k versions of it is pretty 'new'  which means it is less accurate.  The Fantasy version has been out for years and does a pretty damn good job.  The Swedes take feedback seriously, and I would encourage anyone and everyone to send feedback to them.

The komp will never be perfect, due to the number of armies/combonations/ and variables.  But it should always get better.  Another challenge is to react to GW releases, which can be tough.   At any given version, some armies will be 'undercomped', some will be 'overcomped', but this generally is corrected as time goes on.  And if one army is too weak, it will get comped less.   I think it would be a good idea to possibly change some of the points to better fit what works for the BG crowd.  I am sure the swedes would appreciate feedback from that as well.

The major thing that was disappointing about this tournament was that almost all of the people that mentioned and pushed for a comp event didn't bother to play.

I love how it is that people "didn't bother",  It isn't like many of us wrote to Chase to make it this past weekend.  I personally could not make it this weekend.  Even if it had been "keith komp" where keith automatically wins all games.  I am playing in 3 BG events this month.  Just couldn't make this one.  Guess that makes me a hypocrite or unworthy of having input into a tournament format.

I wish I could have made this weekend, but simply put, I don't owe you anything, and don't know why you would be upset.  The system can be tested regardless of who shows up, and I think we can draw some conclusions from it.  It isn't like you or anyone else is going to suddenly like the komp system more if Troy or myself were in the room.

So I guess I'm glad we tested this out for them without their input. Hopefully we learn from that and not take the input from people who haven't played 40k since 5th edition and just love to troll the BG forums.

So much for "being positive" and "not having the conversation go to crap".   I'm trying to not get into silly arguments on these forums anymore, but please cut the shit with the passive aggressive call outs.