[Plainville MA] 40k 1850 Swedish Komp Event - 3/22

[Ian Mulligan]

So I couldn't play with an Imperial Knights army? Its a legal codex, right?

[robpro]

So I couldn't play with an Imperial Knights army? Its a legal codex, right?

Lords of war are legal, too. What's your point?

[Dalymiddleboro]

I don't even think knights should cost 1 komp point. They're pretty easy to take down, and their D weapon is only close combat.

[Goblin]

I don't even think knights should cost 1 komp point.

for perspective, here are some things that are straight up worth 1 komp point:
1 nightscythe
1 farseer
1 venomthrope
1 stormraven
1 aegis defense line

saying knights aren't worth a comp point is equivalent to saying that all of the above are significantly more powerful than a knight, such that those need to be limited, but knights don't. i do not agree with that statement.

the real reason they need to cost comp points is to limit how many people can bring and with what. if they cost no points, i can bring a normal 3 komp army and just add a few knights to it. is that going to be just as easy to beat as the 3 komp army without knights? i highly doubt it.

i personally think knights should be more than 1pt, but i'm totally fine with them being 1 with no option to take a second.

[MM3791]

I don't think a Venomthrope should be worth a comp point, it's a buffer unit like the Farseer.. but not nearly as powerful as the Farseer.

This is why I think comp is stupid, they can't even distinguish the difference between a venomthrope and a farseer.

[Chase]

It's not perfect, it's just something different that might change up what we normally see at the average 1850 event.

Some noteworthy players have made comments in the FB event post about some of the more powerful "3 Komp or less" builds.  They're still out there, they just might not be super common.

[Goblin]

This is why I think comp is stupid, they can't even distinguish the difference between a venomthrope and a farseer.

to be fair, my post is mildly misleading (to drive home the point that a 0 comp knight is just silly). the one comp for a farseer is for EACH farseer, so if you take two it's two comp points, whereas for venomthropes, you just pay once, after that you can have as many as you want (which matters as it lets you play multiple bubbles, or make one bubble harder to remove).

It's not perfect, it's just something different that might change up what we normally see at the average 1850 event.

certainly isn't perfect, but i think it's a good start and the concept of targeting problem units instead of trying to make blanket changes to indirectly deal with the problem is the right idea.

[Benjamin]

certainly isn't perfect, but i think it's a good start and the concept of targeting problem units instead of trying to make blanket changes to indirectly deal with the problem is the right idea.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

But I can't wait to see how the dominant Ork lists adapt to their penalties.

[Bill]

I see what you did there Ben, I think the problem is that people are thinking about these changes in the vacuum of their own army. Using the Orks as an example; sure they are not dominant at all but if you made all the changes to Tau and Eldar but did nothing to Orks to keep them from getting out of control all it would do is shift the meta to a different power army so you have to consider what effect changing the current power armies will have on the non-current power armies.

The other issue when making comp you have to assume that each and every person is at the exact same skill level.

To be honest; if there was no restriction on Mega Nobs but a massive restriction on O'vessa star (extremely good at killing mega nobs) and no other massive deathstars to tie them down than Orks would be pretty insane. Mega nobz are amazing but you still have to be a good player. Comp has to assume that everyone is good enough to make them the broken unit that they would be.

[MM3791]

It's called the butterfly effect, and no one ever accounts for it until it breaks a system in the opposite direction.

[Bill]

Exactly. The best example is right in front of us with Daemons. Yes, the two most popular builds are comped  it not all the powerful builds were. Daemons are by far number 1 under this systems. But if people went and comped cav daemons than people would cry; that build isn't broken and played all the time; why komp it? Well we will all see why at this tourney lol.

[Dalymiddleboro]

Just a side thing, can we say "komp" because that's techinically what it's called. everytime I see "comp" I die a little inside. lol

[MM3791]

If you look at Fantasy comp; you'll see that every unit, character, and magic item, from each individual army book is carefully analyzed. This just looks like a half baked shotgun blast to the face. I still think it's rediculious that venomthropes are even on the list at all.

Also I wasn't criticizing BG, I was criticizing those damn Swedes If people wanted me too, I could make a 'Merican comp using the Fantasy template, but I don't think the regular rules are as bad as people say.

[AstartesXXVI]

Exactly. The best example is right in front of us with Daemons. Yes, the two most popular builds are comped  it not all the powerful builds were. Daemons are by far number 1 under this systems. But if people went and comped cav daemons than people would cry; that build isn't broken and played all the time; why komp it? Well we will all see why at this tourney lol.

By this logic, man, you shouldn't komp anything. (I'm not saying that, I'm just pointing it out...frankly breaking the game in another direction can still shake things up a bit).

I think if nothing else it is a good way for players to know what power level an army is, that is probably the most important part. What makes people rage about power builds isn't the builds themselves but how handily their own can be dismissed when playing them. Having a way to gauge if a battle will be an uphill battle before it starts is going to help a lot with that aspect. In that way it's valuable even if you don't use the system for anything beyond comparison.

[Benjamin]

I see what you did there Ben, I think the problem is that people are thinking about these changes in the vacuum of their own army.

Not the case with me. Komp is trying to roll back the power curve, which is plainly outrageous. But it's not as if an army like Orks was ever at the top of the curve in 6th, and this Komp isn't encouraging people to play the bottom tier armies.

Anyway, I had a thought today. What I think makes sense is not to adopt some Swedish version of 40k, but rather the community embark on its own. Call it BG Komp, keep the idea of points as penalties the same, and just adapt based on results at BG events (rather than some Euro-meta).