GW's March 1st stuff (Knight Titan)

[andalucien]

Actually, this is like a real question.

What CAN profitably assault the knight other than another superheavy?  Talking something equal or less than its points...

I think expensive mc's and non-superheavy walkers and characters are out, b/c of the fact that D weapons kill anything in 1 hit with no saves.

Hordes to tarpit are also out.  Cluster in a large unit of 25mm bases around a flyer base, and then figure out how many he will hit with his d3+1 small blast templates for the stomp, and you'll see what I mean.

Scarabs are out due to the superheavy rules...

I think 7 tomb spyders (350 pts) could usually take him, if they could somehow all charge him at once...  tough to make it really happen since he moves 12" as if he were a jump walker.  Also, his guns and stuff.

Someone said Genestealers?  let's say you somehow charged him with 20 of them (280 points)... 60 attacks, 40 hits, 7 rends or so, equating to 2 hull points...  then he attacks & stomps...  not gonna do it. 

[andalucien]

Does mindshackle scarabs work on superheavies? haha....

[robpro]

Have you even read the rules for super heavies? I don't think most armies have trouble killing 6 av13 hull points. Nobody said you have to assault it, and plenty of things will go before it that can wreck it. The wounds from D don't carry over to multiple models, at best it can kill 3 models a turn in close combat (which at 375 points it probably should be able to).

[Benjamin]

Have you even read the rules for super heavies? I don't think most armies have trouble killing 6 av13 hull points. Nobody said you have to assault it, and plenty of things will go before it that can wreck it.

For example?

[andalucien]

Have you even read the rules for super heavies? I don't think most armies have trouble killing 6 av13 hull points. Nobody said you have to assault it, and plenty of things will go before it that can wreck it. The wounds from D don't carry over to multiple models, at best it can kill 3 models a turn in close combat (which at 375 points it probably should be able to).

Yeah, I only asked about assault though.  I know that assaulting the Knight isn't the only way to interact with it, I'm just trying to figure if it there's anything that wants to do that.

Onto your assertions about its vulnerability in assault:  yes - gimme an example of something (or things)  costing around the same points that will go before it and wreck it?

One other point:  it can kill way more than 3 models per turn.  If it's totally surrounded by like a horde of Orks the stomps will probably kill about 15 more of them.

[MM3791]

Wych cults haywire will eat it alive. MC can vectorstrike

[Sir_Prometheus]

The plague bearers with touch of rust might work?  Not betting on it. Yeah, mass haywire grenades would work.

@Rob No....I don't think killing 6 hull points of AV 13 is that easy, judging by how infrequently people kill my hammerheads. And 6 hull points of super heavy is much harder to kill than 6 hull points of regular vehicle. And it doesn't sound like we're talking about 6, it sounds like we're talking about 18 or 36.

[Loranus]

Does Strength D ignore Invulnerable Saves?

[Grand Master Steve]

Strength D does ignore invulnerables as I recall.  Every army has answers for a knight. Marines have TH SS termies and assult marines with Melta Bombs, gaurd have suicide melta vet units, Chaos Marines, 2 Melta Guns in one squad, Deamons im not familiar enough with, Tyranids have all sorts of nasty claw upgrades, Necrons can glance it to death or use a C'Tan, Orks have nobs with powa clawz and I think they to have Melta  Bombs, Sisters Heart Melta Weapons, Tau..offensive amount of Rail Fire and Marker Light spam, Eldar have bright Lances and Wraith Knights, Dark Eldar have Dark Lances and Hay wire Grenade Wytches, Grey Knightd have the babby walker and also TH SS termies. I think I covered every one Im not counting all the other marine codecies. Point is every army has an answer to a Knight one way or another. 

Ide like to know who can ally with the knights?

[Thefallen]

Does Strength D ignore Invulnerable Saves?

Yes.

Actually, this is like a real question.

What CAN profitably assault the knight other than another superheavy?  Talking something equal or less than its points...

I think expensive mc's and non-superheavy walkers and characters are out, b/c of the fact that D weapons kill anything in 1 hit with no saves.

Hordes to tarpit are also out.  Cluster in a large unit of 25mm bases around a flyer base, and then figure out how many he will hit with his d3+1 small blast templates for the stomp, and you'll see what I mean.

Scarabs are out due to the superheavy rules...

I think 7 tomb spyders (350 pts) could usually take him, if they could somehow all charge him at once...  tough to make it really happen since he moves 12" as if he were a jump walker.  Also, his guns and stuff.

Someone said Genestealers?  let's say you somehow charged him with 20 of them (280 points)... 60 attacks, 40 hits, 7 rends or so, equating to 2 hull points...  then he attacks & stomps...  not gonna do it. 

Power fist wielding Death Company work pretty well. just ask Maddoc what happened to his Stompa.

[robpro]

Have you even read the rules for super heavies? I don't think most armies have trouble killing 6 av13 hull points. Nobody said you have to assault it, and plenty of things will go before it that can wreck it.

For example?

Any demon Prince. A Wraithknight. Not sure how space marines work, but meltabombs will definitely bring it down if you can get a few in a squad. Keep in mind it has to shoot you to be able to assault you and will strike at I1if it goes through terrain.

Matt: How many points is a hammerhead vs a knight? I suspect they're a fair amount cheaper, you'd probably have close to 3 skyrays for 1 knight which would be 9 hull points instead of 6, so there's definitely an opportunity cost to running knights. Why does 6 hull points mean 18 or 36? Why would you play against someone running 1 or 3 or 6 of these when you're not a fan of lords of war or void shield generators which I'd say the imperial knights are definitely designed to interact with?

You guys seem to be forgetting a whole addition to the rules that came out giving everybody the ability to take some D or super heavies and suggest we should probably play more than 1850 point games to fit more cool toys in.

[andalucien]

Any demon Prince. A Wraithknight. Not sure how space marines work, but meltabombs will definitely bring it down if you can get a few in a squad. Keep in mind it has to shoot you to be able to assault you and will strike at I1if it goes through terrain.

Even a bloodthirster will have to get reallly lucky to take one out.  A wraithknight will do maybe 1 or 2 hull points to it in assault.
Meltabombs will be hitting on 6's, will strike AFTER the knight, and even if they get a wrecked result it will only do a d3 hullpoints.  If you have 15 guys that somehow all have meltabombs, you MIGHT kill it.  But is there any army that can do that?

Matt: How many points is a hammerhead vs a knight? I suspect they're a fair amount cheaper, you'd probably have close to 3 skyrays for 1 knight which would be 9 hull points instead of 6, so there's definitely an opportunity cost to running knights. Why does 6 hull points mean 18 or 36? Why would you play against someone running 1 or 3 or 6 of these when you're not a fan of lords of war or void shield generators which I'd say the imperial knights are definitely designed to interact with?

You guys seem to be forgetting a whole addition to the rules that came out giving everybody the ability to take some D or super heavies and suggest we should probably play more than 1850 point games to fit more cool toys in.

Yeah, this is kinda where I was eventually going with this...  Other superheavies seem a fine answer to Knights.   Not so sure Knights are going to prove fun for everyone if they're the only superheavies allowed.

[andalucien]

Wych cults haywire will eat it alive. MC can vectorstrike

Hmm... wych cults... those grenades still need a 6 to hit a walker and get a single attack right?  So, to do 6 hull points of damage you'd need on average 36 wyches.  I guess that is not much more expensive than the Knight actually    I guess that counts, even if I can't see it happening in an actual game (they are slower than the Knight).

[andalucien]

Power fist wielding Death Company work pretty well. just ask Maddoc what happened to his Stompa.

Hmm, yeah if you had about 6 or 7 of those guys.... that would work.

Actually... haha.... that made me think of something that is a BONA FIDE KNIGHT KILLER.

Sisters repentia!
They will get 3 str 6 armourbane attacks each on the charge!
So, 10 (costing only about 160 or so) charge in, let's say the knight kills 2, the remaining 8 get 24 attacks, hitting 12 times.... should usually get 7 damage results, killing it comfortably!

[MM3791]

I log into the forums and see that people are actually offering constructive solutions, that's nice to see for a change. Thanks for the input guys