Swedish Komp System

[AstartesXXVI]

Ah, I suppose I'd better address this.

All right, that's it.

1)  I haven't posted in this thread since page 8

2) You brought up my name, and somehow I've been part of this conversation for 3 pages.

So you've been reading it, then? You haven't set foot in the store we play out of for at least 3 years, and I haven't been in a BG event in over a year myself. So why do I fucking hear about you so much? That is probably the question you should ask.

3) I most certainly did bitch you out via PM -- Because I thought you were being pompous, preachy, and condescending. I PM'd you because I wanted I didn't want to continue making a public scene of it, I just wanted you to stop.  Well, so much for that!

Well, as far as I can tell, I did stop. What am I supposed to do -- not refer to my club? My club being about to run events of its' own (and, by extension, BG's popular events) is the only reason I am even on this board right now. The same formula is applied to everything I do with that club -- look at what makes people unhappy in other situations and do my best to prevent it/facilitate its' opposite. Combined with the fact I'm hearing tall tales and rumors about things down there it was a clear thing to check out. I don't really care that it annoys you that I talk about my club, I am not lording it over anybody and just because you take it as such doesn't mean that is my intention. BG has a bigger community and the best and biggest events in the area BAR NONE and my club will never touch but a shred of that same popularity, and I know that. I say "my people" because that is what they are, I don't play at BG.

Don't get pissed at me because the closest thing you guys have to a sense of community is everyone talking shit about you. I say those things to make sure everyone knows I am here as a guest and that I have my own little bubble where we do things differently, elsewhere, and to take what I say with a grain of salt at their discretion.

4) You have spent many, many pages in this thread about comp talking about how BG has such a bad reputation, everything is better where you play, everything would be fine if we weren't all jerks, and how up at the battle bunker you need to protect "your people".

Not even close to true and completely subjective. No one here has been a jerk, show me where I've said as much. Even above, read what I wrote -- that you probably get a bad rap, and that have of the bad things I've heard are exaggeration. The point is that comp, as a feature, makes all that bullshit less likely. Aren't you tired of being called a bullshitter? Play in an event with comp and no one can say your list is bullshit, you match the comp, everyone elses is at the same level. it is not just a tool to actually level the playing field, but a tool to level peoples' perceptions of the playing field as well -- a PR tool, that will get more people coming in. This comp system FURTHER has the benefit of potentially allowing both casual and hardcore players to co-exist at BG. It is from all angles a good idea.

I protect my people from being treated like shit because THAT is the founding principle of Evil Dice, because when I started, I was treated like shit. No one told me how to paint, how to play, how to act, how tournaments and clubs worked, none of it. Openly mocked by guys, disrespected and bullied. So yeah -- I protect those people. My club is for people who like this game and don't want to put up with that bullshit. It's why I founded it and why I gave six years of my life to it and will give a hundred more if I have to. So if you want to put me on the cross for that, fine -- do it. My conscience is clear, I never came here to rub anything in your face.

5) I don't even think any of this is true (well, except for everyone thinking I'm an A-hole, that's totally true)  BG has a reputation for having a competitive scene -- which is totally deserved.  I certainly think that can drive less-competitve people away....and that's also probably justified, no one enjoys being totally outclassed.  But it's not a bad thing, in and of itself, in fact I think it's great.  BG has basically never had trouble getting huge attendance for it's tournaments, and recent drop-offs almost certainly have everything to do with turbulence in 40k, and nothing to do with BG.

Like I said to you in the PMs -- we're all playing the same game. Regardless, we're in agreement here. But rulings need to be made or you are going to always have two camps: comp vs no comp, double FOC vs 1999+1, super heavies vs. no super heavies. This comp system idea was a good way to at least let people put a number to it, so that they could all exist in the same homogenized scale.

6) Hey please stop telling us how we do everything wrong and you do everything right -- that was why I PM'd you saying you were being pompous, condescending and other names.  Feel free to tell me what a jerkhole I am -- preferably via IM.

7) I would really like to go back to discussing comp, now.  (and not how comp relates BG's general righteousness, moral standing, and reputation)

I never said any such thing, and would never -- Chase has been super friendly to me since day one and I would never disrespect the store. What we do up there works for our needs and BG is a very different environment both in size and audience. I'm a club, you guys represent a store. Obviously the same methods can't work. But for the sake of discussion, why wouldn't I bring them up? I already told you, I'm here to compare notes, and actually got a lot of valuable information from this thread (and how it was handled).

Still. Interesting to see. "That's it" eh? You're the dude coming at me! My last post was actually defending you. I wasn't even that annoyed when you PMed me, I get that you took how I was talking a particular way and were being defensive. But what the fuck, dude? If you want to nail ME to a cross for defending "my people" then you'd better get two sets of nails for you defending yours. But whatever. Get at me if you want to get at me. You don't even know what you're dealing with. Just make sure you don't ever show your face at my club again.

And the rest of you out there reading this. Yeah, you lot. Go ahead and stand around and watch, and nod in approval, like you weren't just telling this guy to go eat shit and die not 24 hours ago in other threads.

Look. I get it, I'm an outsider, my opinion doesn't matter much here, and I came off poorly. Regardless, I got all the information I need, and it is clear where I'm not welcome. So there is no need for me to stay around here and get peppered with this bullshit anymore. It's clear there is no point in continuing to communicate.

Thanks for reminding me why I started doing what I do, and why I need to keep doing it.

[Goblin]

i'm gonna make a couple suggestions here:

first: let's just make a sportsmanship thread and go talk about things related to that there. comp and sportsmanship are entirely separate issues, at least from my perspective.

second: why don't we just start compiling data. so every time you play a game, whether it was expected to be a competitive match or just for fun (since the for fun games should give us nice perspective on where we're overcharging comp score for fairly casual lists), tally up each player's comp score and the results for the game (battle points would be best, but just if one player crushed the other or if the game was close would be enough) and post them in a thread here. then we can have some data to back up discussions of what to change to make the comp fit our environment.

[Sir_Prometheus]

....stuff.....

It doesn't seem productive to address any of that, but I feel like it proved my point.  Suffice to say I don't much care what a bunch of people at a store I apparently haven't played at in 3 years (why the hell are you keeping count?  I sure haven't been) think about me. Likewise, no, if you don't play at BG, it doesn't seem particularly cool for you to come around throwing your opinion on how things should be run.

Let's talk about comp.

I think we should have 1 tournament with this comp system pretty much as is.  It's not perfect but it doesn't seem bad, either, and it has that nice "screws everyone" quality.  Someone mentioned it comps Orks, but of course it does, it comps everything, and it actually seems really hard to make an ork list that scores very high, at least without doing all meganobz in battlewagons, or something. 

[andalucien]

The Nurgle Army I took to my last 1850 tournament comes out at a 2    

[Sir_Prometheus]

That's good, right?  I don't recall it being over the top or anything.

[andalucien]

Well, I hope it wasn't over the top given that I got no battle points, haha.
My round 1 opponent's white scars army scored a 9.  The barber I went to during my bye round 2 scored a 5 (straight razor is 4 by itself).  Round 3 opponent, Mike's deathstar army, only scored a 5, the SpiritStar is totally under the Komp's radar.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Yeah, but spirit star isn't seer council. I'd rather face that than troys drop pods.

[Goblin]

I think we should have 1 tournament with this comp system pretty much as is.

that should give us a wealth of good data on how this comp fits in our environment.

[Tharcil]

For crying out loud both of you take it back to your PMs.  No one wants either of your arguments, and we can certainly do without someone who doesn't play events or have any of their own first hand knowledge of real people in this community coming in and stirring the pot. You should hope we don't judge your whole club based on how you act as a "guest" here.

I'm generally well mannered. But if either of you act in person like you do here neither of you would be welcome where I play. Grow up and treat others within respect. We're freaking adults that play with plastic mans!

[PhoenixFire]

For crying out loud both of you take it back to your PMs.  No one wants either of your arguments, and we can certainly do without someone who doesn't play events or have any of their own first hand knowledge of real people in this community coming in and stirring the pot. You should hope we don't judge your whole club based on how you act as a "guest" here.

I'm generally well mannered. But if either of you act in person like you do here neither of you would be welcome where I play. Grow up and treat others within respect. We're freaking adults that play with plastic mans!

This!

back to comp or not to comp, that is the question

[Tharcil]

Komp talk. Here's my take after reading what we have so far. I see it being successful in diversifying the lists people bring. I doubt given the talent we have that we'll see that much of a difference in the who's who in tops of the tourneys. Like anything else BG does I'm all for trying anything done some of the time.

I think the most successful way to go about it is to pick one topic at a time or codex at a time to review, discuss, and alter from the comp already posted. A survey at one of he other events to get input from those unlike my self are smart enough to stay off of the forum these days might be another good source for a direction to take this.

[Sam]

Here's the problem as I see it: loud voices are easy to hear.

When people react strongly and loudly (to other people, to rules changes, to comp systems, whatever), they set the tone of the entire discussion. We have a lot of people in this community who are very passionate about their hobbies. Those are the people that let me have the best job in the world. Those are the people that fascinate Chase, since he loves seeing someone hugely into the things that interest them. They are the people who have kept Battleground going for ten years, and who will keep us going and growing for years to come.

But opinions differ, and when passionate people disagree, things get loud. And then it'll start to look like arguments are the beginning and end of what goes on here.

The important thing to remember about the Battleground community, be it Abington, Plainville, or both together, is this: no one person speaks for all. We're a varied bunch. Ben is often the voice of the casual crowd, since he became the de facto spokesman for Thursday night 40k in Plainville. Matt is usually the devil's advocate, challenging the narrative to keep us examining what we do and why we do it. We have tournament players and fluff fanatics, gentlemen and dickwads.

And all of that is okay.

I don't speak for the community. I don't even speak for the store, really; that's up to Derek and Chase. But I want Battleground to be the place it's meant to be, a safe place where we can come together and revel in the stuff we love. That's what I see in the store every day I'm there, and it's largely what I see at the tournaments, too. Every event we run ends with people coming up to me and saying they had fun. Ideally, I'd love to see that same kind of environment reflected on the forums, as well.

I'm not going to tell everyone to stop being dicks on the Internet. It happens. But I would ask that everyone remember the logo and the name at the top of the page. Remember what this forum represents, out there in the real world. Discuss. Be passionate. Trade ideas as forcefully as you need to. But take care not to injure what brought us all together in the first place.

Thanks, dudes. Sorry for the digression.

[Pat.H]

Meganob army comes out to one point if I'm doing this right. So yeah it's pretty hard to make a high point Ork list. Also I really don't know why everyone says Painville is super competitive and serious. I've been going there almost every Thursday for over year and it consists mostly of friends who've known each other forever playing against each other, people showing newbs how to play and lending them models if need be, running increasingly sillier Ork armies, 2v2 and 3v3 lol fests, and more recently singing the occasional Bone Thugs 'n Harmony song.

[Chase]

Also, in case it matters.  I like every 40k player I've ever met.

[Chase]

first: let's just make a sportsmanship thread and go talk about things related to that there. comp and sportsmanship are entirely separate issues, at least from my perspective.

Yup.

second: why don't we just start compiling data. so every time you play a game, whether it was expected to be a competitive match or just for fun (since the for fun games should give us nice perspective on where we're overcharging comp score for fairly casual lists), tally up each player's comp score and the results for the game (battle points would be best, but just if one player crushed the other or if the game was close would be enough) and post them in a thread here. then we can have some data to back up discussions of what to change to make the comp fit our environment.

I'm down if you guys are.