Long convo with GW today.

[MM3791]

I think if one codex is allowed to ally with itself, then every codex should. Also every army should have great shooting units, it is a sci-fi game after all. Remember when Enhanced senses gave tyranids +1 BS? I have no idea why someone would take that away.

[Erich]

Play the game you want to play.

Escalation and Strongpoint are add on rules much the same way as Apocalypse and Cities of Death...if you don't want to use them/ play against them then don't (I certainly have no interest in Escalation, Strongpoint, or Apocalypse games but that is me and I realize other people love the idea of these optional rules).

Tournaments and Events are going to decide what they want to do and if their rulings and inclusions are to your liking then sign up and have a great time (seems that across the internet Escalation is not going to be used in the large GTs).

 If not then don't sign up. However, if you do sign up for an event do not complain about the rules or inclusions, don't complain about it...you could have said no or stayed home.

[Cryptognomicon]

Play the game you want to play.

Escalation and Strongpoint are add on rules much the same way as Apocalypse and Cities of Death...if you don't want to use them/ play against them then don't (I certainly have no interest in Escalation, Strongpoint, or Apocalypse games but that is me and I realize other people love the idea of these optional rules).

Tournaments and Events are going to decide what they want to do and if their rulings and inclusions are to your liking then sign up and have a great time (seems that across the internet Escalation is not going to be used in the large GTs).

 If not then don't sign up. However, if you do sign up for an event do not complain about the rules or inclusions, don't complain about it...you could have said no or stayed home.

THIS

[MM3791]

I'll just say that, in the ETC rules Wood Elves get access to all rulebook magic powers.. even though in the army book they only get access to two. Maybe we will see similar comps with tyranids and psychic powers.

[andalucien]

I'll just say that, in the ETC rules Wood Elves get access to all rulebook magic powers.. even though in the army book they only get access to two. Maybe we will see similar comps with tyranids and psychic powers.

Haha... giving them access to Biomancy again would be a huge boost.

Seriously though, if I could pick one rule to change it would be Synapse/Instinctive behavior.  I think it's a widely recognized principle of game design that you try to make everyone feel like they get something SPECIAL, rather than making players feel like they are struggling to overcome painful drawbacks in order to even function.  Instinctive behavior should not make you run off the board.  Synapse should consist of giving you a huge boost (like Fearless + Eternal warrior, the way it used to be) rather than improving your stuff from being "completely useless" to "just normal like every other army gets". 

This isn't even a game balance thing really, it's a "taking the time to think about how the rules will feel when you actually play the game" thing... which is made vastly easier when you take the time to actually playtest rules.

[MM3791]

Yes I definitely agree, Synapse/Instinctive behavior feels like the old necron "we'll be back".. its stupid and needs to be revamped.

[Ed]

I love you guys. Mad jokes.

[Loranus]

So this is what I am going to do in the future. I am going to use the Formation that lets me have a Stormraven and 2 Stormtalons. I am going to load it with 3 Assault Centurions and an Ironclad Dreadnought give them all Heavy Flamers and play Salamanders. Also going to have a Thunderhawk also with its Big Str D gun shooting shit Escorted by another Storm Talon. Hell lets have another Stormraven Escorted by a Stormtalon loaded with Salamander First Company with Thunder Hammers.

Why Cause its a bloody game and that is what I want to do. When you stop having fun it stops being a game and is more of a chore. That is literally what you guys are making this out to be. Name Calling, Insults, and General Intolerance to other people's views.

Yes the game is unbalanced but it is fun to just you know get out there and play for me. I love the comparison to Warmachine which I play Retribution for love the game lots of fun. But it is too small scale you get lets see about maybe 30 models on the table at a time. Combos dominate the game and maybe that is fine you get a really good set up with your Warcaster who works well with units she would take in the lore. 40k is about large armies duking it out against each other and slaughtering each other in the name of their Grimdark Ideals.

Its y2k all over again people everyone is running for the bunkers as the sky falls down. Cats and Dogs living together MASS HYSTERIA!! Calm Down and Game on. If you dont like the game as it is take a break come back in a couple of months after the dust has settled. There will be a table and Dice waiting for you. Don't ruin the table by flipping it out of rage at the moment.

[Grand Master Steve]

well spoken sir, in the end its all about beer and pretzels and having fun.

[Chase]

There's really no good reason why it can't be a very competitive game with a rock solid ruleset AND be that beer and pretzels game people remember from a long time ago.


Here's one way to spin what's happened over the last 2ish years:

1) Change in release schedule / policy.
2) Finecast.
3) Price increases.
4) Edition change.  Not great, not bad.  Flyers.  Allies.
5) Questionable Codex - Prices for those models increase
6) Fine Codex - Prices for those models increase.
7) Questionable supplements.
8. Terrible Codex - Prices for those models increase.
9) Even more questionable supplement.
10) Digital stuff...
11) RIDICULOUS CODEX - $85 model in standard game.
11.5) Model shortages
12) Supplements!!!!!!!!!
13) Great Codex - $115 model in standard game.
14) Apoc...  Zzz...
15) Fine Codex
16) DIGITAL EVERYTHAAANG!
17) Str D in normal 40k
18) Digital shenanigans.
19) Questionable Codex - New kits average $60+
20) Stock tanks.


Not a great track record, but it is what it is.  Plenty of people wish they'd respond to the vocal few (all of us), but they don't seem to care very much.  Even the vast majority of the "vocal few" are fans first, and I'm sure GW knows that.  People are buying up the $4, $12, $17, whatever digital stuff that is overall GARBAGE.  They have the numbers, I'm positive their management / accountants / whoever aren't stupid.  Making money comes first.  Simple as that, I'd imagine.


It's easy to cry doom and gloom, but plenty of awesome has come out of 6th edition too.  Most find the game is still fun to play almost all of the time.  It allows for more models than ever to be included in a standard game.  It's got at least 3 more dimensions to it than the previous edition(s?).  The fluff is still cool.  Content is coming out faster than ever.  FW supplements are more bad ass than ever.  The models are better than ever and easily, in my opinion, the best in the business.  Tournament attendance (GT level) has been higher than ever.  Exposure is at an all time high...  Digital content... Blah blah...

It's been a controversial couple of months, that's all.  Escalation, Stronghold Assault, the Tyranid book, and the annual report all didn't exactly blow people's hair back.  If I were a betting man I'd imagine IG and Orks will both be great books and the doom and gloom will subside for a while.

VERY few people were complaining when they were gobbling up Tau + Eldar.  The models are sick.  The rules are sick. 

People like a "little too much."  People don't like "not quite enough."  It's been like 6.5 months since we've had a little too much.  People are hungry... and frustrated.

[MM3791]

Yea I think more good then bad came out of the mix, my favorite being the increased content rate. It's really nice to have a new codex every other month.  I was originally impartial to dataslates, but if they're going to release subpar codices just to say "dont worry, we have a dataslate$ to fix it" then it becomes a problem. I don't really have a problem with LoW or Forts, but I can see why some people would want it to be separated, if for no other reason that they don't want to have to run out and buy a $500 titan just to be competitive.

I think the tip of the recent outrage iceberg was the new Tyranids, so much lost opportunity. They took away rulebook powers, drop pods, characters, units like Yrymral genestealers, didn't add a unit with skyfire like every other codex, didn't add old biomorphs, etc. A lot was either taken away or left out for no reason, which is where the bulk of the frustration is coming from in my opinion.

I still think GW makes the best rules, models and fluff compared to any other company. The Fantasy fluff is really good too, I love reading about Sigmar, Magnus the Pious, and pretty much all the elf factions. Just wish they had more creative developers.

[robpro]

So you're telling me people don't think the D counts as "a little too much"?

And Loranus, I would love to play against that if you've got the models and the time. I've got some crazy Necron and Eldar things in mind, can't wait to use my big toys and now I've finally got motivation to paint them.

[Sir_Prometheus]

1) Change in release schedule / policy.
2) Finecast.
3) Price increases.
4) Edition change.  Not great, not bad.  Flyers.  Allies.
5) Questionable Codex - Prices for those models increase
6) Fine Codex - Prices for those models increase.
7) Questionable supplements.
8. Terrible Codex - Prices for those models increase.
9) Even more questionable supplement.
10) Digital stuff...
11) RIDICULOUS CODEX - $85 model in standard game.
11.5) Model shortages
12) Supplements!!!!!!!!!
13) Great Codex - $115 model in standard game.
14) Apoc...  Zzz...
15) Fine Codex
16) DIGITAL EVERYTHAAANG!
17) Str D in normal 40k
18) Digital shenanigans.
19) Questionable Codex - New kits average $60+
20) Stock tanks.

That is like the best breakdown ever.  A lot of people think eldar>Tau, though.  (I actually don't agree, but it is a commonly held opinion)

[keithb]

So this is what I am going to do in the future. I am going to use the Formation that lets me have a Stormraven and 2 Stormtalons. I am going to load it with 3 Assault Centurions and an Ironclad Dreadnought give them all Heavy Flamers and play Salamanders. Also going to have a Thunderhawk also with its Big Str D gun shooting shit Escorted by another Storm Talon. Hell lets have another Stormraven Escorted by a Stormtalon loaded with Salamander First Company with Thunder Hammers.

Why Cause its a bloody game and that is what I want to do. When you stop having fun it stops being a game and is more of a chore. That is literally what you guys are making this out to be. Name Calling, Insults, and General Intolerance to other people's views.

Yes the game is unbalanced but it is fun to just you know get out there and play for me. I love the comparison to Warmachine which I play Retribution for love the game lots of fun. But it is too small scale you get lets see about maybe 30 models on the table at a time. Combos dominate the game and maybe that is fine you get a really good set up with your Warcaster who works well with units she would take in the lore. 40k is about large armies duking it out against each other and slaughtering each other in the name of their Grimdark Ideals.

Its y2k all over again people everyone is running for the bunkers as the sky falls down. Cats and Dogs living together MASS HYSTERIA!! Calm Down and Game on. If you dont like the game as it is take a break come back in a couple of months after the dust has settled. There will be a table and Dice waiting for you. Don't ruin the table by flipping it out of rage at the moment.

A lot of us don't find it fun as is.  If you do, great for you, you'll probably still like it with the changes put in place.

[keithb]

The biggest reason I am let down by the nid codex is codex creep.

Demons, eldar and tau all came out last year and are top dog.  When you are the blip down codex, you are fucked.  Maybe not right now.  Yet, if the codexs start getting "better" again, you will be up shit creek for years to come.