Long convo with GW today.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Rob, I really wish you would stop campaigning for Escalation/Stronghold/Str D.  Most everyone else agrees it's a bad idea, it's like really, really obvious it's a bad idea, and part of the point of playing that game with you was to illustrate that.  Yes, I do think you can tell how bad it is from just one game.  At some point, you really started to sound like a proselytiser, and it's pretty bad.  No, none of those things are the answer.  (yeah, it solves 2++ rerollable but it causes like 27 other problems)

The rules are also just written poorly, borderline incomprehensibly.  I guarantee you there's going to be no consensus tomorrow about how void shields work, and there wouldn't be any about Str D blasts if those existed either. 

[robpro]

They work exactly how I described in our game, however much you disagree.

 I don't see why this concerns you anyways, you've said on this forum and others you'd rather make your own 40k or play Warmachine than play the game we have in front of us, so feel free to do that. This doesn't affect you at all, especially if you think everyone agrees with what you've been posting. It will only apply to people interested in an evolving meta based around what appears to be GWs new strategy.

So, we all know how you feel Matt. Just not all of us feel that way, and we'll continue to discuss our thoughts here as long as the good folks running BG don't mind.

[Grand Master Steve]

um.....I actualy do not care how Str D is handeled....so please dont think your speaking for every one.

[Sir_Prometheus]

They work exactly how I described in our game, however much you disagree.

Haha, WHAT?!?!

First of all, I didn't even try to say that I DO know how either Str D or void shields are handled -- I have a favored interpretation, but it is in that realm of "clearly unclear".  That's the problem.

Second of all, if you are trying to claim that there is only one valid interpretation (this applies to a 100 different GW rules, not just this one), and it's yours, that is clear bull___

I have never, with one statement, seen someone disqualify themselves from further purposeful debate so quickly before. 

[Cryptognomicon]

Rob, I really wish you would stop campaigning for Escalation/Stronghold/Str D.  Most everyone else agrees it's a bad idea, it's like really, really obvious it's a bad idea, and part of the point of playing that game with you was to illustrate that.  Yes, I do think you can tell how bad it is from just one game.  At some point, you really started to sound like a proselytiser, and it's pretty bad.  No, none of those things are the answer.  (yeah, it solves 2++ rerollable but it causes like 27 other problems)

The rules are also just written poorly, borderline incomprehensibly.  I guarantee you there's going to be no consensus tomorrow about how void shields work, and there wouldn't be any about Str D blasts if those existed either.

Please don't speak for everyone.  It is 100% NOT TRUE that everyone thinks these rules are bad.  Rob has every right to talk about trying rules out as you do to talk about how much you think its "awful".   Some of us actually want to play with all the rules as they are. If you don't want to do that just don't show up to that event okay?     

[Sir_Prometheus]

Well, let me amend "most everyone" to 80% according to the results from the NOVA poll. 

http://the11thcompany.freeforums.org/ongoing-nova-open-40k-survey-results-discussion-t6434.html

[Ian Mulligan]

"80% of NOVA attendees" is probably most accurate.

[Sir_Prometheus]

*Shrug* Recius reported similar #'s with his LVO poll.  Maybe you can say 80% of "tournament goers", but that's the only # I care about -- not because if you don't do tournaments I don't care about you, but because it doesn't affect me -- you can play whatever you want on a random Sunday in your basement, or thursday at the store.  This discussion about "what to play and how to play it" really is only relevant in regards to tournaments.

[robpro]

They work exactly how I described in our game, however much you disagree.

Haha, WHAT?!?!

First of all, I didn't even try to say that I DO know how either Str D or void shields are handled -- I have a favored interpretation, but it is in that realm of "clearly unclear".  That's the problem.

Second of all, if you are trying to claim that there is only one valid interpretation (this applies to a 100 different GW rules, not just this one), and it's yours, that is clear bull___

I have never, with one statement, seen someone disqualify themselves from further purposeful debate so quickly before.

When did I claim to say there is one valid interpretation to every GW rule? I did say that this one seems pretty clear. Why shouldn't we resolve hits from the D table the same way we resolve hits from the Haywire table?

If this is all you chose to comment on from my post, then I guess it pretty much fits the trend of you ignoring any meaningful discussion to keep hating on content you, personally, do not like.

The poll you posted is mostly worthless without knowing how many unique participants answered each question, and how much of the total 40k playerbase they represent.

[GossWeapon]

I'm till gonna buy dragon jets and space elves.  This does not stop me.  I like my space models killing my friends space models.

[Ian Mulligan]

Damn, dude. You're just kind of a dick, huh?

[the_trooper]

Rob, it's not clear to me, it's not clear to a lot of people. (Like mike Brandt, or Neil Gilstrap)The fact that it's so clear to you is indicative of a sophomoric view. I contradicted one point because I don't have time to contradict every ridiculous thing you bring up.

Like calling poll worthless because you don't have the raw data. How many people do you think play this game?  Only around 200 go to NOVA. The poll might've gone out to a few hundred people. You're not going to get anything statistically significant. Bringing that up was pointless.

You really jump to ad hominem attacks as soon as people go contrary to your belief, huh? You might want to take a chill pill, bro.

[Chase]

I'm till gonna buy dragon jets and space elves.  This does not stop me.  I like my space models killing my friends space models.

Yup.

[MM3791]

I think Fantasy is more balanced from a unit perspective, because it's a lot more of a rock-paper-scissor system. Even the strongest units have weaknesses.

40k has certain units that are downright super powered nigh unkillable with almost no weakness, so spamming them is a no brainer. Units need to have weaknesses again if the game is to fun.

I don't see nearly as much spam in Fantasy as I do in 40k.

[keithb]

There is a large difference between single day events near your home, and multi day GTs that you have to fly to.

They are very different things.  Most GT goers do NOT want to spend 1-2k on a weekend and have a few STR D templates just remove their army in 25 minutes.

Playing at the gamestore?  Do what you want.

Using the results of a GT poll to support an argument for a local event is not the best.  But it is a similar one.

Do I want to go spend 9 hours at a game store just to have my army wrecked 3 times because it isn't good enough(NOTE: army, not list).  There are a lot of other things I can do with my saturday.

I think many of us just want to go have some tactical games.  Nothing is more frustrating than being blown away because your book is shitty. 

This is one of the main reasons I stopped playing 40k.  There were three options for how the game would play out.  1) Opponent cannot handle all my psychic power nids and I am able to just grind over them, 2) opponent had eldar/sw and could stop my psychic powers and the game is a struggle for me, 3) armies are balanced and it is a great game.

Option 3 happened like 10% of the time.


This is why most fantasy events comp the crazy game over spells.