Long convo with GW today.

[Chase]

If people from the community collaborate and develop some sweet tournament rules, BG will use them at least some of the time.

[andalucien]

Actually I'd help with that too, sounds fun.  I love reading & thinking about & tweaking rules.

[Tharcil]

Interesting....there are a couple rules that need clarification sure and I'm all for that.  However, the part of the game I think is most concerning is the balance and not the many many ambiguous rules.  I'm completely ignorant of how the comp and re-writing for WFB works, but are things like points cost and abilities actually adjusted as well, or just things like no 2++ rerollable?

[Chase]

The WHFB stuff is actually pretty cool.  Here's an example of what they do:

[Tharcil]

The WHFB stuff is actually pretty cool.  Here's an example of what they do:

....apparently they do nothing?   

[Chase]

DL the attachment. 

[Erich]

Why is the 40K community so set against Comp?

Here is a link to the Comp used in Sweden...does not seem out of line to me.

https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx?cid=B4AC6A4695229773&resid=B4AC6A4695229773%21147&app=WordPdf&authkey=%21AK-PdD2uQUjH2ag&wdo=1

[Tharcil]

DL the attachment. 

If I was smart enough to do that I would have....but still don't know how...I click the paperclip and it does nothing!!! SMRT SMRT!

[Chase]

Rules changes:

•  Up to 2 Characters per unit can get "look out sir" against the following spells: Dwellers Below, Final Transmutation and Dreaded 13th. Normal requirements for Look Out, Sir! apply.

•  BSBs can take all the equipment their unit type has access to as if they weren't BSBs. Wood Elf BSB can take kindreds and do not lose their longbow.


General Restrictions:

• All the Army building restrictions are applied only during the creation of the roster, and may be ignored during the game (for example, by joining characters to units or creating new units).

• The army lists allowed are those from any of the currently published GW Army Books, and The Legion of Azgorh from Tamurkhan. No other unit or army list may be used on the event.

• Special or Named Characters are not allowed.

• Fozzrik’s Folding Fortress may not be taken.

• Units cannot be more than 60 models nor 450 points. This does not apply to characters.

• All army sizes are 2400 pt, except when specifically stated in brackets.


Magic Restrictions:

• An army may use up to maximum 12 power dice during each magic phase

• A player can never use more than 5 power dice to cast a spell, no matter the source. For the Lore of Death and the Okkam's Mindrazor spell, this is lowered to 4 power dice.

• Apart from Winds of Magic, an army may only generate up to 2 additional Power or Dispel Dice per magic phase (including channelling). Any extra dice above this is discarded and lost.


Army Specific Restrictions:
• All army sizes are 2400 pt, except when specifically stated in brackets.

- Bretonnia
• Nothing

- Beastmen (2700)
• Maximum unit point cost is increased to 550
• Victory points achieved against Beastmen are decreased by 10%
• Units with Beastmen Ambush may alternatively deploy as if they had the Ambushers special rule. Beastlords and Wargors may be allocated to join such units, and will enter the game with the corresponding unit.

- Chaos Dwarfs
• K'daai Destroyer/War Machines/Hellcannon (max 1)/Chalice of Darkness/Sorceror-Prophet with Lore of Death, max 4
• Chalice of Darkness(counts as 2)/Death magic present in the army/Dispel Scroll, max 2
• Ashstorm and Flames of Azgorh can’t be cast with more than 4 Power Dice

- Dark Elves
• Shade models/Reaper Bolt Throwers (count as 5), max 30
• Dark Rider units, Characters on Dark Steed, max 3 each
• Each 5 (or fraction) Doomfire Warlock models/Supreme Sorceress with Lore of Death/Supreme Sorceress on mount/Sacrificial Dagger, max 2

- Daemons of Chaos
• Beast of Nurgle, max 8 models in total and 4 models per unit
• More than 4 Beast of Nurgle models present in the army/Skullcannon (max 1)/Nurgle BSB/Great Unclean One with Lore of Death, max 2

- Dwarfs
• Can generate up to 4 Dispel Dice per phase instead of 2
• Quarrelers/Thunderers, max 45 models
• Anvil/Grudge Thrower/Cannon/Organ Gun/2nd Bolt Thrower, max 4
• Anvil/Spelleater Rune/Spellbreaking Rune/Master Rune of Balance, max 2

- Empire
• Models with strength 4 shooting weapons, max 45
• Steam Tank/Crown of Command, max 1
• Each 3 (or fraction) Demigryph models after the first 2/Hellblaster Volleygun/Great Cannon/Stank Tank (counts as 2)/3rd Light Wizard, max 5

- High Elves
• Book of Hoeth/Banner of the World Dragon/Archmage with Lore of Death/2nd Frostheart Phoenix, max 1
• Star Dragon/2nd Frostheart Phoenix, max 1
• Models armed with shooting weapons (Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers count as 6 each), max 70
• Ellyrian Reaver units, max 3

- Lizardmen
• Scar-Veteran Saurus on Cold One/Each 3 (or fraction) Salamander models, max 3
• Becalming Cogitation/Dispel Scroll/Channeling Staff and Harmonic Convergence on the same model/Slann with Lore of Death (not including Wandering Deliberations), max 2
• Skink Skirmisher units/Terradon Rider units, max 7

- Ogre Kingdoms
• Gnoblar units, max 3
• Crown of Command/Ironblaster/Each 8 (or fraction) Mournfang Models, max 2
• 2nd Ironblaster/Lord Characters present in the army, max 1
• Hellheart/Dispel Scroll, max 1

- Orcs and Goblins (2500)
• Each 2 (or fraction) Fanatics/Each 2 (or fraction) Spear Chukka/Mangler Squig/Rock Lobba, max 7

- Skaven
• Rat Swarm units, Giant Rat units, Warlock Engineers, max 3 each
• Skaven Slaves, max 120 models
• Gutter Runners, max 2 units
• 2nd Warp-Lightning Cannon (counts as 2)/2nd Doomwheel/Hellpit Abomination (max 1)/Screaming Bell, max 2
• Doom Rocket/Brass Orb/Power Scroll/Screaming Bell, max 2

- Tomb Kings (2700)
• Victory points achieved against Tomb Kings (excluding bonus for Underdog Challenge, Banners, BSB and General) are decreased by 10%
• Skeleton Archers, max 80 models
• Maximum unit point cost is increased to 550
• Neferra's Scrolls of Mighty Incantations can't be taken by model with Lore of Death

- Vampire Counts
• Zombie, max 3 units and 120 models
• Spirit Host units/Hexwraith units (max 2)/Ethereal characters (max 2)/Cairn Wraith units, max 3
• Red Fury/Death Magic present in the army/More than 8 Crypt Horror models/More than 10 Hexwraith models, max 2
• Quickblood on Vampire Lord/2nd Lord Choice/Terrorgheist (max 1)/2nd Tomb Banshee, max 2

- Warriors of Chaos
• Chaos Chariots, max 3
• Daemon Prince/BSB on Daemonic Mount/Skullcrusher units/Chimera after the 1st, max 3
• Flying models (Chimera counts as 2), max 4
• Hellcannon/Lore of Death present in the army/Lore of Tzeentch present in the army, max 2
• Third Eye of Tzeentch/Talisman of Preservation/Armour of Destiny, max 1 on the same model
• Scaled Skin/Wizard level(s)/Daemon of Nurgle/Flying, max 2 on the same Daemon Prince

- Wood Elves (2500)
• Glade Guard models (excluding scouts), max 70
• All elves in the army have ASF (Wild Riders are Elves. This does not affect mounts)
• Casters may choose spells from any of the 8 Common Lores
• Forest Spirit's Ward Save is not negated by Magical Attacks

[Tharcil]

I don't like comp because it hurts of hinders building certain kinds of armies.  You can't go all mech, you can't take more than 1 blah or blah.  I don't feel like this addresses the real problem.  Why is taking more than 1 of unit "Blah" a problem and let's address that.  Is it not priced enough, should it be AP3 instead of AP1, should it be nerfed and allow for a paid upgrade to make it how it is. I feel like the comp as these are listed are just a band aid. That's my two cents of course, but if I had to guess that might be why some people don't like it. 

The one that drives me bonkers is "No Named Characters"  I got into this game because of the story and the characters and Dark Angels were the chapter that got me into the game...trying playing that book with no characters and tell me how fun it is! 

[Cryptognomicon]

I don't like comp because it hurts of hinders building certain kinds of armies.  You can't go all mech, you can't take more than 1 blah or blah. 

I agree. And I feel like in a lot of cases the comp is rather arbitrary based on the TO's personal preference. 

[Sam Butler]

For fodder for thought I'll throw up the Rubric I've used for Pax east for the past two years.

Army Composition Start at 10 pts then adjusted for following, Caps at +25:
1 HQ choice +2pts
2 or more HQ choices +0
1 Named Character +0
More than 1 named Character -5pts for each named character past the first.
More than 1 AV 14 vehicle (such as a Land raider, or Monolith) -5 per each past 1
More than 2 Flyers -5 for each additional flyer.
No Flyers +5pts
More Troops than other force org slots +5 pts for each additional troops choice.
(example 5 troops, 1 Fast Attack, 1 Elite, 1 Heavy 1 HQ = +5 Pts)
More units than double troops choices (not counting HQ) -5 for each additional special choice.
(example 2 Troops, 2 Fast Attack, 2 Heavy = -5)

[robpro]

Before we rewrite the rules to make 40k into a different game, shouldn't we try to have an event with everything laid out as is? Why not try a 3k tournament with everything allowed, (everything defined as codices, supplements, dataslates, escalation, and stronghold assault) as long as you have the rules and the models?

[Chase]

Before we rewrite the rules to make 40k into a different game, shouldn't we try to have an event with everything laid out as is?

I'm a strong supporter of this.

[Cryptognomicon]

Before we rewrite the rules to make 40k into a different game, shouldn't we try to have an event with everything laid out as is?

I'm a strong supporter of this.

Me too!