Author Topic: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014  (Read 11748 times)

keithb

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2013, 09:47:41 AM »
Thank Bill and some of the other guys.  I've been focusing on Fantasy much more this year and haven't been able to play much 40k.  I have "ideas" about what was wrong, but needed the other guys to confirm/deny these ideas since I hardly play.


Also, if you haven't signed up for templecon yet.  Now would be a good time.  Shoot me an email at onslaughtgt@gmail.com

Typhus

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2013, 09:51:00 AM »
 Nah, this is good.
0000 - Rest Period - BUT YOU BETTER NOT SPEND FOUR WHOLE HOURS SLEEPING. IF YOU DO YOU ARE NOT ANGRY ENOUGH AND TOMORROW YOU GET THE FIRST CHANCE TO PLAY PIN THE TAU ON THE CARNIFEX.

Gangrel767

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2013, 11:20:21 AM »
This event will use the missions listed in the templecon mission forum, correct?

http://www.battlegroundgames.com/forum/index.php?topic=7238.0

keithb

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2013, 11:29:06 AM »
Correct,  I will be making a slight update to the missions before go time, but they will look mostly the way they do now.

Mike D

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2013, 04:43:37 PM »
Guess I am the one person who hates this, The penalty of -2 on the re-roll is a hard nerf for my army.  by now all the regulars have seen my Exodite elder.  the army concept is simple, one tough as nails hand to hand unit supported by durable shooting Tau allies.  I have only once placed with this army so don't know why I get the nerf bat, I have no enhanced cover save a my invul is a 4+.  Screamer star and warlock bike armies re-roll a 2+ invul or cover save which is a big difference as even heavy weapons are a 1:36 wound conversion rate compared to my 1:4.  My army is unique and fits my play style and I don't always get the psychic powers I need,  good players just move around my Death Star.  combine that with allowing a character data slate that is a flying monstrous creature that automatically gets all the telepathy disciplines, allowing a super broken inquisition codex that for 34 points breaks scout.  Now add in Tau/farsight shooting Death Stars that have 2 riptides, one an independent character, ignore cover, re-roll misses, intercept, sky fire, split fire, have a 2+ cover save, 4dice on deny the witch rolls.  Your nerf bat has only shifted the meta to Tau or space marine shooty dominance or possibly a flying circus from hell daemon army.  I am disappointed that I will have to once again build a new army to be competitive.  The nerf bat will always have unintended consequences, I can't wait to see what gets slapped next month after the next round of meta shifts.  My 2cents

andalucien

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2013, 08:41:49 PM »
Guess I am the one person who hates this, The penalty of -2 on the re-roll is a hard nerf for my army.  by now all the regulars have seen my Exodite elder.  the army concept is simple, one tough as nails hand to hand unit supported by durable shooting Tau allies.  I have only once placed with this army so don't know why I get the nerf bat, I have no enhanced cover save a my invul is a 4+.  Screamer star and warlock bike armies re-roll a 2+ invul or cover save which is a big difference as even heavy weapons are a 1:36 wound conversion rate compared to my 1:4.  My army is unique and fits my play style and I don't always get the psychic powers I need,  good players just move around my Death Star.  combine that with allowing a character data slate that is a flying monstrous creature that automatically gets all the telepathy disciplines, allowing a super broken inquisition codex that for 34 points breaks scout.  Now add in Tau/farsight shooting Death Stars that have 2 riptides, one an independent character, ignore cover, re-roll misses, intercept, sky fire, split fire, have a 2+ cover save, 4dice on deny the witch rolls.  Your nerf bat has only shifted the meta to Tau or space marine shooty dominance or possibly a flying circus from hell daemon army.  I am disappointed that I will have to once again build a new army to be competitive.  The nerf bat will always have unintended consequences, I can't wait to see what gets slapped next month after the next round of meta shifts.  My 2cents

Mike D, having been the most recent victim of your SpiritStar, I don't think you are even nerfed by this?   You end up with a lot of re-rollable 3+ and 4+ - not as freqently 2+.  The nerf is only to 2+ rerolls.   Also, your particular deathstar gets part of its resilience from its majority toughness 6 (unlike the more well known deathstars)...   Basically I think you made out like a bandit here, lots of the threats to you were banned (D weapons) or toned down a bit (other, faster deathstars).
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 08:43:55 PM by andalucien »
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

Bill

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2013, 02:45:41 AM »
Agreed, I think you mis-read the change. The -2 to the reroll is only in the event the reroll is a 2+. If you have a 4+ or even a 3+ reroll it is 100% unchanged in anyway.

Benjamin

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2013, 10:28:04 AM »
I thought he read the change well enough. What he doesn't like is the nerf to re-rollable 2+ save gimmick when there is also so much other BS in the game.

Bill

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2013, 11:07:42 AM »
To that same level? Like what?

keithb

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2013, 11:44:33 AM »
I thought he read the change well enough. What he doesn't like is the nerf to re-rollable 2+ save gimmick when there is also so much other BS in the game.


Negating 35/36 wounds is not workable in the game, with this method you still save 11 of 12... I guess that isn't durable enough for some people.


look.

6+ save, you save, 1 of 6 wounds
6+ reroll, you save,  1.8333 of 6 wounds
5+ save, you save, 2 of 6 wounds
4+ save, you save, 3 of 6 wounds
5+ reroll, you save,  3.3333 of 6 wounds
3+ save, you save, 4 of 6 wounds
4+ reroll, you save,  4.5 of 6 wounds.
2+ save, you save, 5 of 6 wounds
3+ reroll, you save,  5.333 of 6 wounds.
2+ then 4+, you save, 5.5 of 6 wounds.
2+ reroll, you save,  5.833 of 6 wounds.

So even with the -2 penalty, it is still better than all other saves.

Using D weapons to "deal" with these units is a poor solution, because it drops a giant middle finger on everything else in the game as well.

Look at any other miniature game in existence, nothing else is even remotely that durable.  But that is because GW just wants your money.

"Having trouble dealing with unit X that we stupidly put out?  Don't worry.  Just spend 320 dollars on your new 'solution'.  Trust us, we are doing this to make the game experience better for you!  What's that?  Your opponent puppet strung your titan and killed your entire army?  Have a beer and play another game! Duh!"

Exactly the attitude I want from a company that puts out governing rules.
 

Benjamin

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2013, 12:19:19 PM »
I understand the math well enough, but that's justifying what is still arbitrary, regardless of how many players agree with you.

Taking appropriate armies and playing them well are the keys to winning, as it always has been. Mike D laid out how to beat his list, standard anti-Deathstar strategy really.

keithb

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2013, 01:06:52 PM »
I understand the math well enough, but that's justifying what is still arbitrary, regardless of how many players agree with you.

Taking appropriate armies and playing them well are the keys to winning, as it always has been. Mike D laid out how to beat his list, standard anti-Deathstar strategy really.

The only thing that is arbitrary is which armies get to do the 2+ reroll gimick and which dont

Deathstars are easier to avoid when they arent on jetbikes.

I dont Think you do understand the math or how it affects the game if you have no issue with it.

robpro

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2013, 01:34:50 PM »
All we are saying... is give D a chance.

Benjamin

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2013, 02:24:29 PM »
The only thing that is arbitrary is which armies get to do the 2+ reroll gimick and which dont
But it is not arbitrary which players can play those lists. A competitive player who really wants to win would either take that list or bring a counter-list.

Believe me, I understand it well enough. But I don't understand the desire to fight the GW tide. They'll win. And in the process, you risk alienating players because you don't like their lists.

andalucien

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Re: [Plainville MA] Onslaught GT Primer Tournament (TempleCon) - 1/18/2014
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2013, 05:06:45 PM »
I'm pretty sure GW doesn't care at all what rules people use for competitive events, since they have said many times that they are not interested in maintaining a balanced competitive system.

TO's are in a tough spot, no matter what they do, someone will feel picked on.  For example, if Templecon had taken the "Go with what GW has published" approach, Mike D's list (and all deathstars) would be instantly invalidated, since one D blast would destroy the entire deathstar automatically.   
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.