Come on guys...

[andalucien]

I actually hope that some day, somehow (whether with this ruleset or a different ruleset), we can find a way to use superheavies in "Competitive 40k".  The models are just too gorgeous and the excitement factor too high, and it will be good for the competitive scene if it allows the same set of models that are allowed in "casual 40k", if only because there is a better chance that casual player X will actually have an army that is legal to bring to a given tournament. 

It should be possible somehow.  From reading about warmahordes lately, it doesn't seem like there is  anybody that says "Oh, Colossals aren't fun to play against" or that wants to run colossal-free tourneys.  There could be different reasons for that;  my guess is the difference in playtesting strategies adopted by GW vs Privateer.   

Anyway, kind of pie in the sky at this point but just wanted to throw my hope out there for the internet to read.... 

[Typhus]

It should be possible somehow.  From reading about warmahordes lately, it doesn't seem like there is  anybody that says "Oh, Colossals aren't fun to play against" or that wants to run colossal-free tourneys.  There could be different reasons for that;  my guess is the difference in playtesting strategies adopted by GW vs Privateer.   

Colossals were designed to be used in normal games of Warmachine.   There is no comparison to using models created for Apocalypse in a "normal" game of 40k.

Colossals are a massive points cost and have to pre-deploy so you know where they are going to be.  They also have problems with terrain because they have to clear the terrain completely or they cannot cross it.

They are not a good analogy to a Super heavy.

[andalucien]

Colossals are a massive points cost and have to pre-deploy so you know where they are going to be.  They also have problems with terrain because they have to clear the terrain completely or they cannot cross it.

Well, just throwing it out there... if those types of rules help to effectively balance the greater power of the colossals, couldn't 40k superheavies have similar rules? 

I know we're getting into "creating an entirely new ruleset" territory here, which is why it's pie-in-the-sky.

According to GW, there are no longer any models which are specifically intended for Apocalypse.  Tournaments are talking about home-brewing new rules for their events, which ban certain parts of the "official" game (such as superheavies) in order to create an environment which they believe their attendees will enjoy more than "off the shelf GW rules".

[Rurouni Benshin]

I have posted on my FB how tired I am of the constant complaining. Yeah guys in the end, its just a game with little plastic men. Are you making  a living off it? No

Yes well said, sometimes people have to get a little dose of reality and decide what's really important in life.

To crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of the women.

That is what is important and good in life.

Thanks, Conan.

[Typhus]

Colossals are a massive points cost and have to pre-deploy so you know where they are going to be.  They also have problems with terrain because they have to clear the terrain completely or they cannot cross it.

Well, just throwing it out there... if those types of rules help to effectively balance the greater power of the colossals, couldn't 40k superheavies have similar rules? 

I know we're getting into "creating an entirely new ruleset" territory here, which is why it's pie-in-the-sky.

According to GW, there are no longer any models which are specifically intended for Apocalypse.  Tournaments are talking about home-brewing new rules for their events, which ban certain parts of the "official" game (such as superheavies).

As I've said on other forums, I am all for a "Gladiator" type event using Escalation (which is pretty much what the Gladiator tourney at Adepticon was - 2500 points, 1 Super Heavy, FW allowed) and I had a great time.

Allowing this in GT play (and I'm talking about the 2 day, 6-8 round events we go to) is problematic because it goes from crafting a list that can attempt to take on everything, win with good tactics or lucky dice rolls to "Here are 4 5" templates that you can do nothing about that allow you no save of any kind" you can't prepare for.

[robpro]

You can totally prepare for them, every codex has answers. The stronghold book provides fortifications that can be used to severely mitigate the impact strength d "alpha strikes" have on the game and I bet if you upped the points to 3k everything would work out.

Give D a chance! It's ok in a 3k!

[Grimwulfe]

Whats not ok with 3k is playing the damn game for 3+ hours.......

[robpro]

I think I think it works at 3 hours. Bringing super heavies or the kinds of units good at killing them eat up a bunch of points. you won't be up against a guy with 360 Orks for the most part, you'll be up against ~1800 of regular stuff and then a few cool big units that are good at things or like 1-2 EVAs.

[Grimwulfe]

Yes but that is not logical to say the least.  3 hour games suck especially when your getting older like me and have back problems..  The idea is to shorten games not lengthen them.  And shit I would put out there that there would be someone with 360 orcs..  At Daboyz I played against 180 not a fan to say the least.

When it comes to superheavies and escalation Chase has it right while some events will cater to it others will not.  The arguments that is should be allowd and it shouldnt are an old hat.  Both sides know their respectives stances so no amount of rebutle is going to change the opinions of those that dont want it (myself included).

So I got a better idea.  Lets let it lie and move on to staring at the pretty pictures

[Sir_Prometheus]

You can totally prepare for them, every codex has answers. The stronghold book provides fortifications that can be used to severely mitigate the impact strength d "alpha strikes" have on the game and I bet if you upped the points to 3k everything would work out.

Give D a chance! It's ok in a 3k!

That is purely not true. More importantly, it's not that you can't tailor to take one out, I just think you really shouldn't have to.

MOST importantly, D weapons just invalidate any sort of vaguely expensive unit. Not deathstars, just stuff like terminators, any MC, any GK, crisis suits, expensive vehicles....all useless.

It's the complete end of your army as you know it. We're talking normal, balanced, fluffy lists, anything that isn't horde of some form. Or drop podding.

[andalucien]

I think it's also useful to remember that "can this be beaten?" is not the same question as "is this good for the game?"    As people play more test games with and against superheavies, it's more important to think about whether the game was FUN than who won or lost a particular game.  For example, if you play against

1 Reaver
1 Chapter master
2 scouts

and turn 1 you drop and and kill the Reaver with 12 meltaguns, the game is already over.  The team with no superheavy won.  Was it a good game?

[robpro]

I think it's also useful to remember that "can this be beaten?" is not the same question as "is this good for the game?"    As people play more test games with and against superheavies, it's more important to think about whether the game was FUN than who won or lost a particular game.  For example, if you play against

1 Reaver
1 Chapter master
2 scouts

and turn 1 you drop and and kill the Reaver with 12 meltaguns, the game is already over.  The team with no superheavy won.  Was it a good game?

That's why you play 3k. It lets somebody run the reaver and still have stuff, plus allows tons of answers for it. I picked 3k because it's enough for somebody to play the "all eggs in one basket" phantom titan strat and allow other people to bring counters.

[Erich]

You don't have to play against/ with super heavies, D-Weapons, Escalation (and so on), if you do not want to. It is the choice of each player whether he or she wants to set up against an opponent using these models and rules.

As Grimwulfe said, people have chosen their camps (yay, nay, or indifferent)...if you don't like D-Weapons don't play games where they are in use, don't go to events that have them.

We know they change the game. We know they are powerful.

Why continue the debate?

The tournament community and vast amount of TOs will decide what they want to include, house rule what they think is best, and go from there. It will all get sorted.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Ok, I'm officially sorry I argued in the "Don't argue" thread, btw.

[PhoenixFire]

The tournament community and vast amount of TOs will decide what they want to include, house rule what they think is best, and go from there. It will all get sorted.

This