Battle Report with Escalation

[the_trooper]

Yeah, this proves our point.

20 minutes is not even Warhammer anymore.

Didn't someone from Dark Star table some turn 1 before?

I mean, that should be less than 20 minutes.

There are ways to table someone inherent to the game itself, not because 1 unit by itself takes out an entire army.

The "Arms Race' scenario where folks will need a super-heavy, or more precisely a D-weapon, to remain competitive, is one that is unhealthy for national competitive play.  At that point, we might as well be playing Apocalypse with a time limit.  And when I want to play Apocalypse, I play Apocalypse. But most times, I just want to play 40K.

Whenever the meta shifts (bad FAQ, new codex, new supplement) the same thing happens?

No?

Yes?

Maybe?

N/A?

[Grimwulfe]

Yeah, this proves our point.

20 minutes is not even Warhammer anymore.

Didn't someone from Dark Star table some turn 1 before?

I mean, that should be less than 20 minutes.

There are ways to table someone inherent to the game itself, not because 1 unit by itself takes out an entire army.

The "Arms Race' scenario where folks will need a super-heavy, or more precisely a D-weapon, to remain competitive, is one that is unhealthy for national competitive play.  At that point, we might as well be playing Apocalypse with a time limit.  And when I want to play Apocalypse, I play Apocalypse. But most times, I just want to play 40K.

Whenever the meta shifts (bad FAQ, new codex, new supplement) the same thing happens?

No?

Yes?

Maybe?

N/A?

DOH?

[the_trooper]

Yeah, this proves our point.

20 minutes is not even Warhammer anymore.

Didn't someone from Dark Star table some turn 1 before?

I mean, that should be less than 20 minutes.

There are ways to table someone inherent to the game itself, not because 1 unit by itself takes out an entire army.

The "Arms Race' scenario where folks will need a super-heavy, or more precisely a D-weapon, to remain competitive, is one that is unhealthy for national competitive play.  At that point, we might as well be playing Apocalypse with a time limit.  And when I want to play Apocalypse, I play Apocalypse. But most times, I just want to play 40K.

Whenever the meta shifts (bad FAQ, new codex, new supplement) the same thing happens?

No?

Yes?

Maybe?

N/A?

DOH?

RE?

[Grimwulfe]

Yeah, this proves our point.

20 minutes is not even Warhammer anymore.

Didn't someone from Dark Star table some turn 1 before?

I mean, that should be less than 20 minutes.

There are ways to table someone inherent to the game itself, not because 1 unit by itself takes out an entire army.

The "Arms Race' scenario where folks will need a super-heavy, or more precisely a D-weapon, to remain competitive, is one that is unhealthy for national competitive play.  At that point, we might as well be playing Apocalypse with a time limit.  And when I want to play Apocalypse, I play Apocalypse. But most times, I just want to play 40K.

Whenever the meta shifts (bad FAQ, new codex, new supplement) the same thing happens?

No?

Yes?

Maybe?

N/A?

DOH?

RE?

INC?

[andalucien]

I think a funny thing is what would happen if you tried to charge this Transcendent C'Tan.

He would overwatch you with both weapons.  So your squad would take d3 Strength D hits, and also an average of 4 krak missiles on the way in.   So, charging him with another superheavy would not be the best idea... haha

[robpro]

Super heavies can't overwatch.

Sounds a lot like the person with ultramarines made some mistakes due to not being familiar with the C'tan. Not saying they would have won, but it's definitely killable.

[andalucien]

Ah, that's true, I didn't notice that rule.

Yeah, I'm sure he didn't play right.  I'm also sure I didn't play the C'Tan right.  It was his first game against one, and my first game with one.  But regardless, "know what you're doing vs unit x and have the right weapons to deal with it or get tabled on turn 2" is DEFINITELY a new thing, at least for the time I've been playing.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Super heavies can't overwatch.

Sounds a lot like the person with ultramarines made some mistakes due to not being familiar with the C'tan. Not saying they would have won, but it's definitely killable.

I don't think it is.  Like I said, 20 BS 4 Lascannons wouldn't do it.  (they could after a few turns, but there's no way they'd last long enough)

[robpro]

Pretty sure 5 grav centurions could, especially if you twin link them with a librarian or whatever. I don't know anybody running 20 lascannons, so I dunno why that is a yardstick for killing a gargantuan. 3 rune priests with jaws and something that shoots a concussive shot will do it, too.

[Sir_Prometheus]

I KNOW no one runs 20 lascannons, that was the point, it's illustrative of how dumb it is.

The Centurions have to be within 24", and they're dead about the same time that happens.  (other options Matt didn't pick have much longer range).  This is ALWAYS the problem with grav centurions that people don't realize.  The lascannon and Missile guys are better. 

Centurions, themselves, are EXACTLY the kind of unit that D weapons make impossible to field.  One blas template and they're all gone!

[andalucien]

Also, one bit that might get overlooked a bit is what happens when the C'Tan dies.

In my game, his Str 10 AP2 explosion went out 19".  That's like a vindicator shell that goes out in a 41" diameter circle.  (Wider than half the board).  Basically it seems like if an army of "Conventional forces" clusters up, you just jump the c'tan straight in there.  Even if they kill him, he has a very good chance of annihilating the entire army after he dies.    On the other hand, if the conventional forces spread out, it means he can jump to a flank, and avoid enough firepower to really threaten him as he rolls down the line.   Basically it seems like your best bet is to go first, and have a "trick" that might take him out before he moves (like, 3 rune priests in a pod).  No amount of "Regular stuff" will matter at all.

[Grand Master Steve]

I KNOW no one runs 20 lascannons, that was the point, it's illustrative of how dumb it is.

The Centurions have to be within 24", and they're dead about the same time that happens.  (other options Matt didn't pick have much longer range).  This is ALWAYS the problem with grav centurions that people don't realize.  The lascannon and Missile guys are better. 

Centurions, themselves, are EXACTLY the kind of unit that D weapons make impossible to field.  One blas template and they're all gone!

Funny I know some one that does play with more than that in las cannon

[Benjamin]

There was a doubles game at Thursday 40k tonight and someone brought the new big ol' C'Tan in a can. It moved up, dropped the barrage which killed enough make the D flame template unable to reach anything.

The Blood Angels player against him deep struck in two squads full of melta and a melta attack bike and a stormraven. 9 about-average melta shots later, the Necron thing blew up, killing most of the BA squads in the process.

It didn't earn its points back. Big explosions are fun. *shrug* I don't think it was used in an optimized list, just thrown out there to see what can happen. The game attracted lots of attention, but the reaction wasn't all good. "It can do that?! It can do that too?! Shit."

[Chase]

Wait, a superheavy died.... and Str D did nothing?!!!?!?!??!!!!?1?!?1/!?!???!?!?!???

You're a liar.

[Sir_Prometheus]

There was a doubles game at Thursday 40k tonight and someone brought the new big ol' C'Tan in a can. It moved up, dropped the barrage which killed enough make the D flame template unable to reach anything.

The Blood Angels player against him deep struck in two squads full of melta and a melta attack bike and a stormraven. 9 about-average melta shots later, the Necron thing blew up, killing most of the BA squads in the process.

It didn't earn its points back. Big explosions are fun. *shrug* I don't think it was used in an optimized list, just thrown out there to see what can happen. The game attracted lots of attention, but the reaction wasn't all good. "It can do that?! It can do that too?! Shit."

Since all the shots happen at the same time, that wouldn't even work like that. 

9 average shots wouldn't kill it, not even close (math says exactly ONE wound, on average).  SO either there's more to the story, or they got really, super lucky.

WHich again, just because it's beatable (and I still think it's mostly not) doesn't make it balanced.

You know what would actually work?  LOts of poison or sniper weapons.