Author Topic: Battle Report with Escalation  (Read 8588 times)

andalucien

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Battle Report with Escalation
« on: December 12, 2013, 12:38:10 PM »
OK, Battle report with first intro of superheavies /w/ D weapons into my local gaming group...  We were just sort of messing around to see what would happen.  It was an 1850 game.

I brought

Transcendant C'Tan with Transliminal Leap, 6d6 krak missiles per turn, and D Weapon Hellstorm Template
Imhotekh
Royal court /w/ 4 stormteks and Veiltek
Firestorm Redoubt /w/ BS3
3 units of necron warriors, 2 in night scythes, 1 to occupy the building.


My buddy didn't feel like proxying a superheavy, but tried to take some things knowing I would be bringing one. He took (not very exact)

Some Ultramarine tac squads in rhinos / w / melta
Tigurius
Grav centurions
Buff commander
Like 3 squads of various Crisis suits (missiles, melta, etc)

I got first turn, he kept Grav Centurions in reserve so he would be more likely to be able to get first shot off with them eventually on my C'Tan.

My turn 1:
I jumped C'Tan forward, nuked 1 large crisis squad with 25 krak missiles, and incinerated 2 rhinos (1 of which had tigurious in it) with the D weapon.  My lightning squad teleported forward with Imhotekh attached and wrecked another rhino. 

NOTE:  Rhinos might actually be VERY useful when fighting superheavies... as far as I can tell, a D weapon can only burn the rhino itself, it doesn't hurt the occupants.  So it's 35 points for a 1 turn D shield.

His turn 1:
He posessed the C'Tan with Tigurious, but his D weapon (16" long template) wasn't in range of any good targets of mine.  I had nothing else on the baord So he fired 21 krak missiles at my lightning squad /w/ Imhtokh, but Imhotekh tanked like a champ and soaked up most of the wounds.   He then fired a bunch of stuff at my C'tan and the lightning squad.  It's really hard to hurt something that has T9, 3+ armour, 4+ invul, and FNP with normal weapons.  He did 1 wound to it and killed off most of the lightning squad.

My turn 2.  Jump the ctan over the remaining rhino, exploding it.  Jump the reemains of the lighning squad out to no man's land b/c they don't matter anyway.  SHoot 23 krak missiles at another 3 man crisis squad, killing it.  I had jumped to arrive near tigurius's squad & the other tac, so fire the D weapon, and kill all but 1 grunt marine from both squads. 

His turn 2:  his army is devoid of anything that can really hurt the c'tan except for the centurions.  They didn't arrive from reserve, so we called it, but then we just pretended that they Did arrive to see what would happen.   They did another 3 wounds to him (it's still hard to get through the 4+ invul plus FNP).  So we pretended that they had killed him to see waht would have happened.  He exploded and did a strenght 10 AP2 hit to everything within 19" of him.   This explosion killed all of the remaining marines, the 3rd crisis squad, and 2 of the centurions (who had gotten a little too close, about 17" away).

My turn 3:  20 minutes had elapsed.  My other friend who was looking on started trying to convince me that we still had enough time for me to drive home and get Lords of Waterdeep and get in a game.  I tried to convince folks to play again /w/ proxied superheavies but was not able to drum up interest.




Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2013, 12:49:02 PM »
Wow, thanks for the input.

So.....the abridged version is a what, 860 pt C'Tan (way to go heavy or go home, btw) ROFLstomped a whole army in 20 minutes?

I knew it was bad, didn't actually think it was that bad. 

Quote
NOTE:  Rhinos might actually be VERY useful when fighting superheavies... as far as I can tell, a D weapon can only burn the rhino itself, it doesn't hurt the occupants.  So it's 35 points for a 1 turn D shield.

Well, C'tan gets to cheat a bit, do the transluminal leap thing, and kill all the occupants with a gun.  Not that he likely cares either way. 

Typhus

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2013, 12:54:43 PM »
Yeah, this proves our point.

20 minutes is not even Warhammer anymore.
0000 - Rest Period - BUT YOU BETTER NOT SPEND FOUR WHOLE HOURS SLEEPING. IF YOU DO YOU ARE NOT ANGRY ENOUGH AND TOMORROW YOU GET THE FIRST CHANCE TO PLAY PIN THE TAU ON THE CARNIFEX.

the_trooper

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2013, 01:12:35 PM »
Yeah, this proves our point.

20 minutes is not even Warhammer anymore.

Didn't someone from Dark Star table some turn 1 before?

I mean, that should be less than 20 minutes.

Typhus

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2013, 01:23:54 PM »
Yeah, this proves our point.

20 minutes is not even Warhammer anymore.

Didn't someone from Dark Star table some turn 1 before?

I mean, that should be less than 20 minutes.

There are ways to table someone inherent to the game itself, not because 1 unit by itself takes out an entire army.

The "Arms Race' scenario where folks will need a super-heavy, or more precisely a D-weapon, to remain competitive, is one that is unhealthy for national competitive play.  At that point, we might as well be playing Apocalypse with a time limit.  And when I want to play Apocalypse, I play Apocalypse. But most times, I just want to play 40K.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 01:25:43 PM by Typhus »
0000 - Rest Period - BUT YOU BETTER NOT SPEND FOUR WHOLE HOURS SLEEPING. IF YOU DO YOU ARE NOT ANGRY ENOUGH AND TOMORROW YOU GET THE FIRST CHANCE TO PLAY PIN THE TAU ON THE CARNIFEX.

Cryptognomicon

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2013, 01:25:08 PM »
Thanks for the battle report. 

I don't think just one game is a enough to "prove" that this rule set is bad but its obvious that this game didn't go so well for the non-super heavy player.  Not seeing his full list and not known a lot about the CTan itself makes it hard for me to tell for sure.

Looking forward to seeing more reports to get a better idea of how this plays.  I personally think the book is going to be super fun for beer and pretzels games.  For people who don't like fun and only play competitively then it probably won't be.   

Typhus

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2013, 01:27:15 PM »
Thanks for the battle report. 

I don't think just one game is a enough to "prove" that this rule set is bad but its obvious that this game didn't go so well for the non-super heavy player.  Not seeing his full list and not known a lot about the CTan itself makes it hard for me to tell for sure.

Looking forward to seeing more reports to get a better idea of how this plays.  I personally think the book is going to be super fun for beer and pretzels games.  For people who don't like fun and only play competitively then it probably won't be.

What full list do you need to see?  6d6 Str 8 ap3 missles kills literally everything, plus the super big everything dies flamer template, plus its a str9 3/4++ wound creature that cannot be instant killed by anything?

And who says you can't have fun and be competitive?
0000 - Rest Period - BUT YOU BETTER NOT SPEND FOUR WHOLE HOURS SLEEPING. IF YOU DO YOU ARE NOT ANGRY ENOUGH AND TOMORROW YOU GET THE FIRST CHANCE TO PLAY PIN THE TAU ON THE CARNIFEX.

andalucien

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2013, 01:33:08 PM »
Trying... not .... to .... add..... any.... comments.... myself.... rrrrrhhhhhrhhhrhrrghghghghhhhh.....
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

Cryptognomicon

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2013, 01:33:47 PM »

And who says you can't have fun and be competitive?

Sorry - let me clarify

Nobody says that you can't enjoy both fun beer/pretzels games and competitive games. But I know people who only play competitively and some who don't like to play in tournaments at all. I meant that this will appeal to some people and not others.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013, 01:35:59 PM by Cryptognomicon »

Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2013, 01:57:37 PM »
I'm not sure the scenario Matt described is appealing to anybody. 

Jared and I were discussing, what if the opponent had had like 10 lascannons?  (1.6 wounds a turn, btw, assuming all have shots) I don't think it would have made any difference.  The C'Tan would have had a little less wounds at the end of the day, but it wouldn't make the marines die any slower, and they wouldn't kill it before they were wiped out.

20 lascannons?  3.3 wounds a turn?  Probably still no, doesn't kill it first turn, C'tan kills enough first turn that he takes a lot less damage in later turns, stays ahead of the curve.  It might be possible to kill it, not likely.

And who brings 20 lascannons? 

the_trooper

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2013, 03:19:56 PM »
Yeah, this proves our point.

20 minutes is not even Warhammer anymore.

Didn't someone from Dark Star table some turn 1 before?

I mean, that should be less than 20 minutes.

There are ways to table someone inherent to the game itself, not because 1 unit by itself takes out an entire army.

The "Arms Race' scenario where folks will need a super-heavy, or more precisely a D-weapon, to remain competitive, is one that is unhealthy for national competitive play.  At that point, we might as well be playing Apocalypse with a time limit.  And when I want to play Apocalypse, I play Apocalypse. But most times, I just want to play 40K.

Whenever the meta shifts (bad FAQ, new codex, new supplement) the same thing happens?

TJcosmo

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2013, 03:32:12 PM »
I was the SM player who played andalucien in this battle report.

There was no way to stop the Trany C'tan, their not big models and are easily hidden out of LOS. The D weapon template combined with the speed of the C'tan make so you really have no response and you ARE going to lose giant swaths of your army fighting against one. Even at 800+ points for the C'tan it makes its points back easily right off the bat and if it survives to hit you more then one turn its game over.

"Our cruisers can't repel firepower of that magnitude!" -Admiral Ackbar

Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2013, 03:44:11 PM »
Yeah, this proves our point.

20 minutes is not even Warhammer anymore.

Didn't someone from Dark Star table some turn 1 before?

I mean, that should be less than 20 minutes.

There are ways to table someone inherent to the game itself, not because 1 unit by itself takes out an entire army.

The "Arms Race' scenario where folks will need a super-heavy, or more precisely a D-weapon, to remain competitive, is one that is unhealthy for national competitive play.  At that point, we might as well be playing Apocalypse with a time limit.  And when I want to play Apocalypse, I play Apocalypse. But most times, I just want to play 40K.

Whenever the meta shifts (bad FAQ, new codex, new supplement) the same thing happens?

No?

the_trooper

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2013, 03:48:31 PM »
Yeah, this proves our point.

20 minutes is not even Warhammer anymore.

Didn't someone from Dark Star table some turn 1 before?

I mean, that should be less than 20 minutes.

There are ways to table someone inherent to the game itself, not because 1 unit by itself takes out an entire army.

The "Arms Race' scenario where folks will need a super-heavy, or more precisely a D-weapon, to remain competitive, is one that is unhealthy for national competitive play.  At that point, we might as well be playing Apocalypse with a time limit.  And when I want to play Apocalypse, I play Apocalypse. But most times, I just want to play 40K.

Whenever the meta shifts (bad FAQ, new codex, new supplement) the same thing happens?

No?

Yes?

Grimwulfe

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Re: Battle Report with Escalation
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2013, 04:11:07 PM »
Yeah, this proves our point.

20 minutes is not even Warhammer anymore.

Didn't someone from Dark Star table some turn 1 before?

I mean, that should be less than 20 minutes.

There are ways to table someone inherent to the game itself, not because 1 unit by itself takes out an entire army.

The "Arms Race' scenario where folks will need a super-heavy, or more precisely a D-weapon, to remain competitive, is one that is unhealthy for national competitive play.  At that point, we might as well be playing Apocalypse with a time limit.  And when I want to play Apocalypse, I play Apocalypse. But most times, I just want to play 40K.

Whenever the meta shifts (bad FAQ, new codex, new supplement) the same thing happens?

No?

Yes?

Maybe?
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