Feast of Blades to ban/change D-Weapons (Grimoire is out too)

[andalucien]

Typhus I find your position confusing... Codex Supplements, Dataslates, and Escalation are all rules published by GW.  You say that you don't want tournaments to ban or adjust anything, but you also say that they shouldn't allow dataslates or superheavies.  Doesn't that contradict?

[Sir_Prometheus]

ANd changing the rules doesn't make a fun game?

But the "rules" now, don't make a fun game.  Games are meant to be fun.  Things HAVE to change.  The other option is to stop playing. 

[MM3791]

For those interested, Frontline did a complete 180 on their stance against titans.. in just 48 hours Check out the army tactics here http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/12/10/guest-editorial-on-escalation-by-adam-b-from-the-dice-abide/

[Chase]

I dunno, I guess it's somehow different when certain rules from certain sources are cherry-picked and eliminated.  I feel like it sits differently.  Banning an entire model / unit just "feels" or "seems" better than banning a piece of gear or some power, especially when a few different things might be able to take them.

Not allowing entire books seems fine.  Not allowing any dataslates seems fine.  /shrug  It's just different.


Also, I'm not against the attempt.  I don't know that I would have gone public with it just yet though.

[Chase]

40k Rulebooks:  Guilty until proven innocent.

[Sir_Prometheus]

I dunno, I guess it's somehow different when certain rules from certain sources are cherry-picked and eliminated.  I feel like it sits differently.  Banning an entire model / unit just "feels" or "seems" better than banning a piece of gear or some power, especially when a few different things might be able to take them.

Not allowing entire books seems fine.  Not allowing any dataslates seems fine.  /shrug  It's just different.


Also, I'm not against the attempt.  I don't know that I would have gone public with it just yet though.

Maybe that's the Magic player talking?  40k is different, people put all that time into a model, and most people pick a model because frankly they like the look.  I don't really want to ban models.....people put a lot of love into their models, maybe someone thinks that throne of skulls thing is sexy, and I don't want to take that away from him. 

But certain rules, rules combos can make the game unplayable.  These have always cropped up from time to time, for me, 4th ed falcons always come to mind.  But it seems very clear lately the notion of any sort of quality control has gone completely out the window. 

So throw out rules, keep the models. 

[Gangrel767]

I think they should just rule that the grimoire doesn't stack with psychic powers. This still gives the ability to get a 3++ (re roll 1's), but without the extreme 2++.

IMHO - The seer council is entirely different because it is a 2+ Cover/Armour save re-rolled. That's either armour or cover, but their invulnerable is only a 4++, so it's no where near as frightening as the screamer council.

I have often wondered why we haven't gone back to a comp type system. M:TG and even warhammer fantasy have used a comp system for years. This is obviously a tough call because to comp immediately means your forming a bias against certain combo's or builds, which can lead to seemingly heavy handed bans (see the above grimoire ban). It is a slippery slope, and I personally am going to be very careful on the event I choose to go to based on which supplemental rulesets they allow.

On one hand all these new options give us a very Rogue Trader feel to 40k again, but conversely it is the most imbalanced set of rules releases I can remember in a long time.

[andalucien]

haha... well, they don't have the best track record recently chase   I guess I am a bit guilty of expecting Escalation / Stronhold to be a lot worse than they actually are (after I got BURNED by being one of the few to actually buy the inquisition codex).

Also, I think i agree with you that they might have erred by releasing this really early... people are just going to jump all over the holes in the very early version of the "comp system"...   well, nothing to do now but sit back and enjoy the fireworks.

[Sir_Prometheus]

http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2013/12/a-40k-tumult-stay-cool-and-roll-dice.html

Well, as Brandt pointed out, not so subtly, it's a little silly for Feast to worry about this now, as feast is literally an age away.

But templecon?  Yeah, shit gets real, real soon. 

[andalucien]

For those interested, Frontline did a complete 180 on their stance against titans.. in just 48 hours Check out the army tactics here http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/12/10/guest-editorial-on-escalation-by-adam-b-from-the-dice-abide/

This is written by a different person.  It's not a 180, it's more like an Op-Ed piece.

[Gangrel767]

I wonder if that is why they did it, to root out all the dissension in the community. I mean sooner or later people will buzz enough and a sort of community agreement will form from what we (the players) want.

[MM3791]

For those interested, Frontline did a complete 180 on their stance against titans.. in just 48 hours Check out the army tactics here http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/12/10/guest-editorial-on-escalation-by-adam-b-from-the-dice-abide/

This is written by a different person.  It's not a 180, it's more like an Op-Ed piece.

Well regardless, there is still really good info in there on how to take down a Revenant via "conventional" warfare.. even factoring in it erasing two units per turn.

[Typhus]

IMHO - The seer council is entirely different because it is a 2+ Cover/Armour save re-rolled. That's either armour or cover, but their invulnerable is only a 4++, so it's no where near as frightening as the screamer council.

Add Baron Sarthonyx and its the most broken thing ever.

2+ Invul
2+ Armor
2+ Cover

Hit and Run at I7
+1 Str to HoW attacks
Heal wounds
Reduce armor on a unit.
Reduce LD on a unit

[andalucien]

Oh, I definitely don't think Revenants are unbeatable.  I just think that games involving a Revenant would not really resemble what I like about 40k.

Like, what if they came out with a new model, "Cosmic Coinflip Machine".  When it activates, you flip a coin.  Heads, you win the game.  Tails, you lose the game.

There is a very effective strategy that you could use to beat the Cosmic Coinflip army half the time - just let them activate it!   It's definitely not an unbeatable army.  But... yet...something is missing... oh yeah, it's "playing 40k".

[shwnlyns]

http://whiskey40k.blogspot.com/2013/12/a-40k-tumult-stay-cool-and-roll-dice.html

Well, as Brandt pointed out, not so subtly, it's a little silly for Feast to worry about this now, as feast is literally an age away.

But templecon?  Yeah, shit gets real, real soon.

I think the idea here is that they plan to play test this comp to see how well it works before deciding upon it. Something it looks like gw has given up on. This seems to me like something they are testing the waters with and getting as much player response as they ca  to make what they feel like will be the best set of rules.