Feast of Blades to ban/change D-Weapons (Grimoire is out too)

[Erich]

http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/12/feast-of-blades-will-be-enacting-restrictions-and-bans/#more-8692

1.) The Grimoire of True Names from Codex: Daemons is banned
As of right now, this is the only true banning. We feel there is too much potential for abuse, and disagree with the effect it has on the army and the game.

2.) A few units will receive 0-1 status
For those of you who weren't around when 0-1 was a thing in codecies, means that a maximum of 1 of that unit may be taken per army. These are all units whose mass inclusion limits the potential lists in the game, and will thus be restricted. (As none of them are a problem on their own.) Rest assured that this will be a very short list, we are not interested in creating very restricted armies.

3.) Supplemental Codecies will no longer be able to ally to their base codex
There will be no more self-allying, no more cherry picking the best parts of a supplement while paying none of the costs, and no more force-org bloat from doing so.

4.) Dataslates will take an ally slot
Taking units from many, many different books and ignoring the force organization chart is too much. This change will make dataslates an interesting addition to the game, without allowing for truly bizzare armies.

5.) The number of psychic mastery levels in an army will be limited
This change will eliminate a great many power combos from the game, and will stop a player from making a lot of lucky rolls on the psychic power tables to effectively win the game before it begins.

6.) Strength D is out, Lords of Battle are in
We feel the the Lords of Battle are not overpowered on their own, the fact that they give the opponent some advantages (bonus to seize, and especially victory points) balances out their fearsome firepower and powerful endurance. Strength D, however, is too powerful. This is well-known by every apoc player (and I am one of them), and has been the case for the past two editions. (Yes, it was even overpowered back in 5th, and it was much worse then.) There is some debate still going on, but it looks like S:D will become S:10, ordinance, ignores cover. That still makes it very powerful, but more in line with the price paid for the superheavy as well as it's other weapon options. In addition, superheavies will have to start on the table.

7.) Super-forts are gone, or at least downsized
No AV15, it will be AV14 instead. Every individual fortification from Stronghold Assault is allowed, but the “network” choices are simply too big and unwieldy to allow for tournament play. (As a consolation, they're pretty terrible, so I think it's OK.)

8.) Dedicated transport flyers will be limited
Flyers are not the be-all end-all of this edition, but all-flyer and mostly-flyer armies change the meta in uncomfortable ways and are notoriously unfun to play against.

[MM3791]

So they ban the grimore but not JOTWW? Makes perfect sense 

[andalucien]

THAT'S what I'm talking about.

Love it.

Of course, this must be a "first stab"... I'm sure that people will point out issues, but I'm totally on board with the basic thrust of what they're doing here.

[Typhus]

I disagree with literally everything they say.

[andalucien]

Maybe I'm a little weird, but this sort of change makes me MORE likely to buy a superheavy.  Because I won't feel bad when I play against someone who doesn't have one, and because I won't be afraid that superheavies will just get banned from a lot of events.

[andalucien]

Another interesting quote from the article:

"Recently, we've been hearing from several very reliable sources that GW has stopped their playtesting, or has at least reduced it to a very minimal amount. This jives with the releases and units we've been seeing show up all across the country."

Yep.

[Sir_Prometheus]

I think it's good they're looking to get things back to working, but don't really agree with some of their specific ideas. 

Grimoire isn't the problem, 2+ rerollable is, so just ban that and let people Grimoire their blood crushers or whatever. 

Codexes allying with themselves isn't the problem, 4 riptide lists are, and it sounds like they're already looking to ban those. 

etc....

[andalucien]

I would encourage anyone reading this to please read the ENTIRE article linked to.   It explains the motivation for doing what they're doing, in a lot of detail.

They are very clear that this is a VERY EARLY ALPHA version of the changes they're going to put into effect, and that it really serves as an illustration of the types of things they're willing to do.  React to the endeavor, not to the details of the posted list of alterations in its current form.

[the_trooper]

So they are adding comp?

[Typhus]

I would encourage anyone reading this to please read the ENTIRE article linked to.   It explains the motivation for doing what they're doing, in a lot of detail.

They are very clear that this is a VERY EARLY ALPHA version of the changes they're going to put into effect, and that it really serves as an illustration of the types of things they're willing to do.  React to the endeavor, not to the details of the posted list of alterations in its current form.

I did read, and I still do not agree.

The reason ETC for Fantasy works, is that they limit things/magic/items based on an army by army basis, after playtesting literally over 2000 games.  They do not arbitrarily ban/modify the inherent rules of the game to suit their needs.  What FoB is doing is just that, changing the rules of the game.

2++ reroll isn't a problem.  Look at the major GT's since the release of Demons in April - did screamerstar or jetstar win them?

NOVA - Open was won by the first 4 riptide list, so no one knew what to do about it.  Invitational was won by an Eldar player with Wave Serpents who beat the same 4 Riptide list because he killed the guys troops and hid.

Da Boyz - Won by a Jetstar list on a die roll to go to turn 5.  Alan had 1 scoring model left against a Space Marine player with bikes, storm talons, and thunderfire cannons.  I would not call that a crushing decisive victory.

Mechanicon - Grey Knights and Space Marines

WarGamesCon - Ben Mohile, Necrons and Orks

Feast of Blades - Darkwynn with Farssers, a few bikes, guardian blobs

Killadelphia - I think Neil won with Tau?

IndyGT - Necrons/Chaos

Good players can win with any lists, and 2+ rerollable is not the end all be all, and honestly, can easily be dealt with if you know what you are doing.

[andalucien]

Typhus, I don't think the article even mentions 2+ rerolls at all.

[Sir_Prometheus]

2++ reroll isn't a problem.  Look at the major GT's since the release of Demons in April - did screamerstar or jetstar win them?

Um, wut?

Yes....though it's mostly been seer council, not screamerstar.  (which is why I' saying it's not the grimoire).  Seer council won NOVA invitational, it came in first and second at DaBoyz. 

Matt Defranza.  Seer council, not a wave serpent list, I believe. 

[Typhus]

2++ reroll isn't a problem.  Look at the major GT's since the release of Demons in April - did screamerstar or jetstar win them?

Um, wut?

Yes....though it's mostly been seer council, not screamerstar.  (which is why I' saying it's not the grimoire).  Seer council won NOVA invitational, it came in first and second at DaBoyz. 

Matt Defranza.  Seer council, not a wave serpent list, I believe.

2nd in invitational was aaron aelong with wave serpents.  1st at Da Boyz was Alan's list that barely won against the 2nd place which was Space Marines.

[Chase]

So they are adding comp?

Yes.

And changing rules.

And banning things.

[Typhus]

So they are adding comp?

Yes.

And changing rules.

And banning things.

That's the crux of my position.  They are arbitrarily banning things they don't like, which doesn't affect anything else that Matt, Matt, and others have been saying.  Banning Grimoire because you don't like demons "abusing the rules"; but allying in the Baron with 2 Farseers and 10 Warlocks to get the same result is legal?(and even then, at least the Demons get a 2+ Reroll.  Seerstar can reroll, hit and run, furious charge, heal wounds, and a ton of other tricks, and I think it is FAR more abusive)

0-1?  Warlock Star is a 10 man unit.  Can't stop it.  0-1 Riptides?  0-1 Wknights?  0-1 Heralds?  This is changing the intrinsic rules of the game and I do not like it.

Supplements specifically state they can be allied with parent codex.  That's like saying "Yeah, you have this allied chart but we don't want you using it, so let's just say you can't".  And for note, the only 2 supplements that can do it are Farsight, and Black Legion.  Seeing as no one cares about Black Legion, it's clear they don't want you to take Farsight.  So again, let's ban something we don't like.

Dataslates are retarded, and shouldn't even be a thing.

Limiting psychic users?  So either they outright ban ML3 dudes (Farseers, Heralds, MC's), or they say you can only get up to 2 charges per dude.  Again, changes the rules of the game and is stupid.

Oh hey, lets allow super heavies?  Great.  This is my Lord of Skulls with a 2+ invul save.  LETS PLAY A FUN GAME OK GUYZ.  0-1, still legal, this is gonna be fun!

Dedicated transport flyers are bad?  They change the Meta?  Since when?  Cron air is dead and gone, and the only other transports are Storm Ravens (which are a points cost), and vendettas (which are mainly used as cheap ass nigh-untouchable lascannon platforms)

Changing the rules of the game does not make for a fun game, and I for one do not approve.