Another digital supplement was just launched - Be'lakor

[Sir_Prometheus]

Look, allies are awesome.  If nothing else, it means there are no "behind the curve" codexes anymore, because you can always shore up what you lack.

I'm not sure it's so great for armies to be able to ally with themselves, like Tau-Farsight, but also including things like Space Marines.  Why should SM be able to get 4 Elites, or Heavies?  Just cuz?


We really need to ban these dataslates, though.  No, they shouldn't be used, not even when we allow Forge World.  Didja know wthey seem to corresponding to "bundles" (I hate that they use that word, as there are no discounts) off the GW website.  So......they're a pure money grab.

We probably shouldn't allow Codex INquisition, either.  Supplements should be allowed though. 

[PhoenixFire]

We really need to ban these dataslates, though.  No, they shouldn't be used, not even when we allow Forge World.  Didja know wthey seem to corresponding to "bundles" (I hate that they use that word, as there are no discounts) off the GW website.  So......they're a pure money grab.

these bundles surprisingly do have steep discounts

the Tau one saves you $95 bucks, the SM flyer one like $30 bucks, the Eldar one like $85 bucks.

Great way to get into a new army, have BG order them for you today!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440161a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

[andalucien]

Look, allies are awesome.  If nothing else, it means there are no "behind the curve" codexes anymore, because you can always shore up what you lack.

You can shore up what you lack by morphing your army into 50% of itself and 50% of one of the most recent codexes.  It's no longer as much "your army" at all.   Like, if you're an Orks player, you can make your Ork army stronger by really making it half Tau.   But does that actually mean Orks are good and satisfying?   No, it means Tau are good and satisfying.   Then you realize after a while, "well, I'm half Tau anyway, wouldn't I be better off if the OTHER half was Eldar instead of Orks?"     And all over the world, armies start to get more and more the same and the personality slowly bleeds out.

[Grimwulfe]

Hence the mountin bro!!  Mono lists for the WIN!!!

[andalucien]

Hence the mountin bro!!  Mono lists for the WIN!!!

Hence the mountain bro.  That's a good summary of how I am currently getting myself excited about 40k  

[andalucien]

Actually, I'm not even sure that it puts all armies on a level playing field any more than they were before allies.

If before, we could divide armies into two levels, "from a good codex" and "from a bad codex" (an oversimplification, but useful for the point),

now we can divide things into THREE levels:

"Armies from a bad codex",
"Armies from a good codex or from a bad codex that shore up their weaknesses with allies",
and the newcomer,
"Armies that combine units from different codexes to form something really broken".  Like the various "stars".

Now, your fluffy pure-ork list might usually lose against an army from a good codex (or an army using some allies), just as it would have before.  But if you practice, you might win sometimes, and you will usually have at least a fun game.

But if you take your fluffy pure-ork list against like a tuned Jetseer council or something, you're just wasting your time.  The outcome is never in doubt at all, and you might not even kill anything. 

The increased tools available to everyone have ALSO increased the ceiling of how powerful and broken an army can be, so "normal armies" find themselves just as far behind as they were, and "fluffy armies" are almost playing an entirely different game now.

[Typhus]

I for one, welcome our new Dataslate Overlords.

[Sir_Prometheus]

We really need to ban these dataslates, though.  No, they shouldn't be used, not even when we allow Forge World.  Didja know wthey seem to corresponding to "bundles" (I hate that they use that word, as there are no discounts) off the GW website.  So......they're a pure money grab.

these bundles surprisingly do have steep discounts

the Tau one saves you $95 bucks, the SM flyer one like $30 bucks, the Eldar one like $85 bucks.

Great way to get into a new army, have BG order them for you today!

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440161a&rootCatGameStyle=wh40k

OK, well, I am at least happy GW is bringing back an actual package discount of some kind.

Look, allies are awesome.  If nothing else, it means there are no "behind the curve" codexes anymore, because you can always shore up what you lack.

You can shore up what you lack by morphing your army into 50% of itself and 50% of one of the most recent codexes.  It's no longer as much "your army" at all.   Like, if you're an Orks player, you can make your Ork army stronger by really making it half Tau.   But does that actually mean Orks are good and satisfying?   No, it means Tau are good and satisfying.   Then you realize after a while, "well, I'm half Tau anyway, wouldn't I be better off if the OTHER half was Eldar instead of Orks?"     And all over the world, armies start to get more and more the same and the personality slowly bleeds out.

Dude, not at all.  Back when Tau were bad (beginning of 6th) bringing in allies from even also-not-good codexes was super helpful.  I used GK strikes squads because that's what I own (and yeah, GK were good then) but you could totally have done something similar and super useful with Ork Boyz.

Allies are NOT just "make my suck codex less suck by bringing in something from a broken codex". (though yes, that can happen too).  I'm talking real synergies.

You want to lay a mono list, do it, I do sometimes.  Often, before the farsight supplement came along. But allies are lie the best idea GW ever had, don't whine about them.   

[Grimwulfe]

You want to lay a mono list, do it, I do sometimes.  Often, before the farsight supplement came along. But allies are lie the best idea GW ever had, don't whine about them.

Bennett while I agree with most of what your saying bout the supplments, to say dont whine about allies when this entire thread you have been whining about supplements just defeats the purpose man.  I wanted to point this out so this thread stays on topic and keeps moving forward in a positive manner.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Sure, fair enough.  Though, point of order, I was whining about dataslates.

Supplements I think are mostly a great thing...Clan Raukaan seems the best example of how it should be done.  Everything is about the same power level as the main book, but it's not MORE powerful, so that the only people who would want to play are Iron Hands enthusiasts, which is as it should be. 

[Typhus]

Sure, fair enough.  Though, point of order, I was whining about dataslates.

Supplements I think are mostly a great thing...Clan Raukaan seems the best example of how it should be done.  Everything is about the same power level as the main book, but it's not MORE powerful, so that the only people who would want to play are Iron Hands enthusiasts, which is as it should be.

Pfft, I just want 2 unkillable bike chapter masters.

[MM3791]

We can have tournaments for purists, only 4th ed rulebook and codex are allowed. Or just go back to 1st ed.

You'd think GW would get a little credit for ramping up support(big time) for their players and systems, but no matter what new products and rules they come up with, it is painfully clear that in the 41st millennium.. there is only whining & belly aching 

[andalucien]

We can have tournaments for purists, only 4th ed rulebook and codex are allowed. Or just go back to 1st ed.

You'd think GW would get a little credit for ramping up support(big time) for their players and systems, but no matter what new products and rules they come up with, it is painfully clear that in the 41st millennium.. there is only whining & belly aching 

Hey, I give GW credit when they do something right (like the last 4 real codexes), and I criticize them when they do something wrong (like the stuff I'm talking about in this thread).  And of course it's all just someone's opinion.  If some other people agree, and want to play using what we all see as a better game,  no harm in it.

[Sir_Prometheus]

We can have tournaments for purists, only 4th ed rulebook and codex are allowed. Or just go back to 1st ed.

You'd think GW would get a little credit for ramping up support(big time) for their players and systems, but no matter what new products and rules they come up with, it is painfully clear that in the 41st millennium.. there is only whining & belly aching 

They've been writing progressively less-clear rules and haven't written a legit FAQ in at least 9 months.  That's not support, that's just pumping out rules for $$$.

[shwnlyns]

They've been writing progressively less-clear rules and haven't written a legit FAQ in at least 9 months.  That's not support, that's just pumping out rules for $$$.

I played 10 years ago and have gotten back into 40k this past year and I'd have to say it certainly seems this way. I'd don't think I'd mind seeing something like patches to current codeices to fix or balance what's not working, but charging $4 for more rules to add a character to your list seems tacky. It's like gw is shooting us in the face with a shotgun stuffed with whatever rules they feel like adding and charging us for it.