The Space Marines list I made that I think I'm in like with.

[Benjamin]

This is my first draft of a Herohammer list using only the Space Marines codex. I really miss punching things in this game.

1850

Primary Detachment - Ultramarines

HQ
(285) Calgar, Antilochus

Troops
(110) Scout Squad x10
(110) Scout Squad x5, Land Speeder Storm, Multi-melta
(100) Scout Squad x5, Land Speeder Storm

Heavy Support
(250) Land Raider, Multi-melta

Fast Attack
(135) Bike Squad x5, Grav-guns x2
(135) Bike Squad x5, Grav-guns x2
(135) Bike Squad x5, Grav-guns x2

Allied Detachment

HQ
(230) Lysander

Troops
(110) Scouts x10

Heavy Support
(250) Land Raider Redeemer, Multi-melta

It's not a big secret what this list is going to do. Two Land Raiders are going to each deposit a Herohammer to your doorstep. Lots of Scouts for punching. Bikes with grav-guns, forcing you to choose between death by shooting or death by assault.

I'm almost certain a Grey Knight variation has the potential to be even better with the same principles. Draigo and death cult assassins out of a Land Raider, something like that.

[Typhus]

I don't see what Calgar does for you in this list.  You have no tactical units, so you're losing out on his ability to fire off the Ultramarines chapter tactics.

Why no Bike Chaptermaster?  Then you have 6 troops.

[Loranus]

Calgar in the List basically is just a Close Combat Specialist to throw with his Scouts that get dropped off by the Land Raider. Issues you are going to have. Marneus and a Scout Squad of Ten can not fit in a Land Raider since the Transport Capacity is only 10 models. The Scout Squads that you run with the Herohammer I would give CCW so you just get a boat load more attacks when you assault since they are free and you won't be firing the boltguns.

Some quick changes I would do is Drop 2 Scouts from 10 man Scout Squad in the Primary Detachment. Using 20 of that 22 Points I would give 2 of you bike squads Combi-gravs.

You will have issues with Flyers obviously.

[MM3791]

Space marines assault units will never out beat dedicated assault (eldar/dark eldar, daemon, nids) units in combat, that's why people who do choose to take bikers also take White Scar tactics to gain "hit and run". Bikes are excellent for harassing, but will not survive getting stuck in combat with a real assaulter.

[Mike_k]

Instead of Lysander take a scars chapter master with artificer, shield eternal, thunderhammer or pfist.

Instead of calgar take 10 honor guard in a redeemer/crusader.

Instead of the 4th scout squad take khan.

Drop the other 10 scouts without a LS storm and take a thunderfire.

Now you have 3 scouting bike units, a scouting redeemer/crusader (as a DT for honorguard).  I might also drop 1 bike unit for 5 tacticals in a TL h. flamer rb as well.

You cant assault turn 1 if you scout but basically your wherever you want to be turn 2 with 45 ish charging power weapon attacks with 2+ saves and a 2+/3++ EW tanking for them.

Its sorta almost how I would do it.  your still gonna have fits with helldrakes but CSM not very popular anymore.

[Chase]

You cant assault turn 1 if you scout but basically your wherever you want to be turn 2 with 45 ish charging power weapon attacks with 2+ saves and a 2+/3++ EW tanking for them.

Seems good.

[andalucien]

You cant assault turn 1 if you scout but basically your wherever you want to be turn 2 with 45 ish charging power weapon attacks with 2+ saves and a 2+/3++ EW tanking for them.

Seems good.

Yes, that is similar to the army that I played against first round in last tourney (minus the landraider full of honor guard).  It is about as good as an army can be, without relying on a "broken combo" type of cheatiness.

[Benjamin]

Thank you all for the replies! They are helping me think about this list in new ways and in different situations. So for your trouble, I'm going to shred your replies and raise counter-points.

I feel I have answers for your concerns. And I have many replies to get to, so I'll just get right to the points, in the order in which they were received.

Overall what I'm getting, if I'm reading most of you correctly, is a White Scars vibe.  Yeah, I've seen that list. And no, that's not what I'm trying to do here. I'm quite content with my bikes in a harassment role. I have no interest in Khan. (ETA: With Calgar, I can choose to fail Assaults I get stuck in a bad spot, so it's a very poor man's Hit & Run.)

I don't see what Calgar does for you in this list.  You have no tactical units, so you're losing out on his ability to fire off the Ultramarines chapter tactics.

Combat Doctrines are not limited to Tactical Squads. The text states repeatedly "models in this detachment" with no further qualifier.

Why no Bike Chaptermaster?  Then you have 6 troops.

I don't really have Troops issues, I don't think. Scouts can combat squad, and still all fit in the same Land Raider if need be. (Very important improvement to Combat Squads in this book.) But this does have me thinking.

He'd end up being more expensive HQ than Lysander, but if he's outside of a Land Raider, then I don't need a Land Raider? So maybe I sacrifice two grav-guns for a 10-bike squad heralded by the Chapter Master. I don't know. Without Khan, I see bikes as pricy, but I couldn't take Khan because he's getting his ass handed to him in combat.

Marneus and a Scout Squad of Ten can not fit in a Land Raider since the Transport Capacity is only 10 models.

Land Raider Redeemer has a capacity of 12 models.

The Scout Squads that you run with the Herohammer I would give CCW so you just get a boat load more attacks when you assault since they are free and you won't be firing the boltguns.

I was thinking about that for all the Scout Squads except the one in Lysander's detachment, at least under this exact list. With a Chapter Master, it's almost assured all the Scouts would have CCWs.

You will have issues with Flyers obviously.

With the whole army up and punching face, it seems less of a concern. Plus, I could always use Devastator doctrine to boost my chances (twice if need really be).

Space marines assault units will never out beat dedicated assault (eldar/dark eldar, daemon, nids) units in combat, that's why people who do choose to take bikers also take White Scar tactics to gain "hit and run". Bikes are excellent for harassing, but will not survive getting stuck in combat with a real assaulter.

So I'll shoot them instead.

Instead of Lysander take a scars chapter master with artificer, shield eternal, thunderhammer or pfist.

This has great merit! To match up with Lysander, let's say we give him a Thunderhammer. That's 230 points total, same as Lysander.

The differences: Lysander will have a better invulnerable save, and the Chapter Master has an Orbital Bombardment. But the Chapter Master instead really cleans up the list. I could get more mileage from Calgar and Combat Doctrines with the whole army under an Ultramarines banner. Plus my comp score and Player's Choice goes up! *pushes up nerd glasses*

Odd thing I just noticed, Lysander has both an Iron Halo and a Storm Shield.

Instead of calgar take 10 honor guard in a redeemer/crusader.

So for 110 points, 6 Honor Guard instead of 10 Scouts. Hmm!

[Mike_k]

The shield eternal gives the chapter master a 3++, adamantium will (+1 to DTW roles), and eternal warrior.  Makes him superior to lysander in almost every way.  For 230 points the chapter master has a 2+/3++ and lol's at almost everyone.  You can kit our your honor guard with an assortment of weapons to cover all situations and bases.

I personally would look to kit out the army around the honor guard and take a l2 libby or tigur and have buffs/debuffs galore as well.  But based on what you presented i tried to deviate from your current list as little as possible.

Plus CT's for imperial fists are the worst in the book.

[Pat.H]

Instead of Lysander take a scars chapter master with artificer, shield eternal, thunderhammer or pfist.

Instead of calgar take 10 honor guard in a redeemer/crusader.

Instead of the 4th scout squad take khan.

Drop the other 10 scouts without a LS storm and take a thunderfire.

Now you have 3 scouting bike units, a scouting redeemer/crusader (as a DT for honorguard).  I might also drop 1 bike unit for 5 tacticals in a TL h. flamer rb as well.

You cant assault turn 1 if you scout but basically your wherever you want to be turn 2 with 45 ish charging power weapon attacks with 2+ saves and a 2+/3++ EW tanking for them.

Its sorta almost how I would do it.  your still gonna have fits with helldrakes but CSM not very popular anymore.

Actually you can assault on turn 1 if you scout provided you don't go first.

Q The rulebook states"A unit that makes a Scout redeployment cannot charge in the first turn."Does this mean that if your opponent has the first turn and you go second, your Scouting unit can charge?(p41) A:Yes

[Benjamin]

The shield eternal gives the chapter master a 3++, adamantium will (+1 to DTW roles), and eternal warrior.  Makes him superior to lysander in almost every way.  For 230 points the chapter master has a 2+/3++ and lol's at almost everyone.

I actually did forget the Shield of Eternity is actually a storm shield; I'd pay 50 points for Eternal Warrior alone. That said, Lysander has Eternal Warrior as well. Lysander doesn't have Adamantium Will but his Fist of Dorn is master-crafted S10, AP1 though. I would make that trade.

Plus CT's for imperial fists are the worst in the book.

Sadly, it's true.

[shwnlyns]

Instead of calgar take 10 honor guard in a redeemer/crusader.

So for 110 points, 6 Honor Guard instead of 10 Scouts. Hmm!

I'd take 6 honor guard over 10 scouts.
2+ armor instead of 4+, honor guard get 3 attacks, and come stock with a power weapon.
so 6 honor guard get 19 attacks ( the sarge has 3, at ws 5) at ap 3 if all power swords compared to scouts 21 attacks (if sarge upgraded) at ap -

Also, the scout model kinda sucks, so there's that.

quick edit, i suppose on the turn you charge the scouts would get 10 extra attacks instead of 6