Plainville vs. Abington: Tournament Frequency

[bradpowers]

To Steve D's question about the preponderance of tournaments in Plainville versus Abington:

Why is every tourney always in Plainsville?

Discuss...

[Grimwulfe]

Plainsville Pros:
More Room
Very Active 40K community
More Seasoned Tourny Players
More Terrain
Active Tourny Community

Plansville Cons:
....  comming up a blank here

Abington Pris:
.... Comming up blank here

Abington Cons:
Less active 40k Community (tourny wise)
Lack of space ot fit 15 tables
lack of terrain

Ths is all I got please elaborate on the pros and cons as I dont know them all.

[PhoenixFire]

Troy seems to have hit the main points here, anyone who has been to plainville and abington can atest to the larger space in plainville.

chase seems to have some data on what plainville and abington guys are attending what events which is great, granted abington has only had a doubles and a 500 point tourny which are both kind of oddball events so maybe abington should try a singles and see how many people show and how tight the quarters are there.

from a business perspective... chase already touched on the hassle of moving terrain and tables back and forth between locations.

guys who go to a lot of tournaments aren't going to care much about driving longer to get to abington, they're going to care about the more room to play, the bigger parking lot, and the multiple lunch places next to bg plainville.

the one tournament I went to at abington I saw most of the plainville tournament regulars and a bunch of people I haven't seen before or since that tournament which I can only conclude means they are unwilling to drive to plainville because its to far for them? Or they have a secret hatred of how awesome plainville is

[Chase]

So this really boils down to a few of key things that are probably not obvious.


1) Battleground currently doesn't have enough decent terrain to put together 15+ tables at each location. 

Here's some insight into how this has worked up until recently:

Chase:  Derek, my 40k event is coming up this weekend.  I'm going to need something like 5 or 6 tables and all of the buildings, ruins, and other 40k terrain you've got over there.  [Pro Tip:  Having a lot more terrain than you need speeds up the "set up" phase considerably.]

Chase:  Derek, my 40k event is tomorrow.  Will you have a chance to get some stuff down here?  I need enough stuff for like 17 tables total.

Derek:  Hey dude, I'll be coming down sometime tomorrow night.  Is that going to be alright?

Chase:  Yeah.  I'd love it here ASAP but tomorrow night is okay.  I'm going to be here until 3 or 4am anyways.

(So sometime Friday night, in the midst of 30-60 Magic players signing up for, buying cards for, and playing in Friday Night Magic Derek, needs to find a bunch of 40k terrain and a few tables, consolidate them, pack them up, load his truck, and drive down here to unload it all, sometimes help set up, and then drive home.)

After the event it works something like this:

Derek:  So we'll have to get some of the terrain back here for Thursday night.

Chase:  Okay, cool.  Are you, Lisa, or Beth going to be able to come pick it up or am I bringing it back?

Derek:  I'm not sure, we'll figure something out.

(At some point before Thursday I need to find stuff, consolidate it, pack it up, and set it aside or load it into my car and drive it back to Abington.)

Moral of this story:  HAVING TO DO THIS ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH BLOWS!  It's a giant chore that at least 3 people (excluding Caden, Derek's 4 year old) have to plan half a day around.  Also, terrain gets damaged in transit.  Shocking, I know.


2) The amount of behind the scenes work that goes into running a 40k event is not small.

Between keeping an accurate roster, chasing people down for their lists, checking the lists, getting in touch with people who have sent incorrect lists, making sure the new lists are correct, dropping people, adding people, creating / stealing the scenarios, editing the scenarios, going back and forth getting the packet created, and making sure the tables and terrain are all squared away, a lot of time and energy goes into things.  This is something that the Plainville staff does exclusively (Lisa puts together the packet in photoshop).  If the Abington staff would like to take it on for their own events, it would make things considerably more manageable and a lot easier when it comes to hosting events there with more frequency.  I'm not saying the Plainville staff won't continue to do it, however.

I know this may come as a surprise, but we're busy people before events get factored in.  Also, I know it's easy to forget but we've got stuff going on for a few other game systems too. 

There's a couple more logistical "problems" involved with the Plainville staff working on Abington events, but they're beyond the scope of this.  We hope that in the future this will be less of an issue.


3)  I'm reasonably sure that hosting regular tournaments in Abington is not an ideal fit for that community.

It's common knowledge that the two communities are pretty different.  Non-tournament events are much better suited to Abington.  Tournament attendance numbers over all miniature games are indicative of this fact and have remained the same over the 3 years Plainville has been open.

This is not to say that non-tournament events don't and wouldn't do well in Plainville, it's just my opinion that they're a much better fit for the Abington community vs. the "competitive" environment that's associated with tournaments.  Of course we still run into the problems that number 2 presents, like designing and actually running the non-tournament events over there, but solutions have already presented themselves.

[Grand Master Steve]

ok honestly im not going to post more in this because it will become a flame war.

Personaly its hard for me to drive down early to plainville to a tournament when Abington is in my back yard. It seems to me Magic The Gathering has taken over Abington. Even Warmachine Hordes doesnt have many tournaments there any more.

[Sam Butler]

I'll see what can be done to fix this...   

(no seriously I'll be making another table later this year...)

[Chase]

ok honestly im not going to post more in this because it will become a flame war.

There's nothing to start a flame war about, Steve.  No worries.

You're literally the only Abington regular (excluding Rick, if he still counts ) that's come to a 40k event in Plainville maybe in all of 2013.  I'm generalizing of course, but it may be true.  I know Riley has signed up for a couple but hasn't been able to make it.

Look at the number of people the leagues that are run there attract relative to the number of people that play in tournaments.  WHFB, 40k, and WM/H have all had successful leagues in Abington this year.  Each one has been community organized and run, with the exception of the "score keeping" in the current 40k league.  It's the nature of how things currently are and currently work in Abington.  The proof seems to be in the numbers, and WM/H crowd might be the single best example of that.  Bloodbowl is another great example.  TONS of people in Abington play Bloodbowl and love it.  Ian and his friend put together an awesome tournament and got like 3-5 people to come out for it.  It was a total shame, but it's just more evidence to support the fact that the community there doesn't love tournaments (competitive events).

Abington loves engaging, casual, "let's get together and play this game" type of "events."  They do not seem to love competition for competitions sake.

To further things, there's not an employee in Abington that is taking the reins on things related to organizing miniature events.  This could be for a number of reasons that I won't get into.  When it comes time to give Abington some love it's very easy for me to justify spending my time and effort on other things.  I think, "Well, those guys have a league currently running and don't seem to turn out for tournaments in the way they do for other things so... Maybe next month."

I am very out of touch with the desires of the Abington community because I'm never there.  I only hear from you guys when you post on the boards.  I have no idea what the miniature community there wants or needs because I never hear about it.  If you guys want something or are dying to try something out, you know where to find me!    You also probably know the names of the employees there, so feel free to ask them about stuff.

Is Magic popular in Abington?  Yes.
Does it eat up a TREMENDOUS amount of the employees time?  Absolutely.
Does the amount of time Magic eats up have to do with the attention the miniature community has been given?  Yes.
Has the community there stepped up to fill in the gaps?  Yes, very much so.
Will Battleground continue to host store run 40k events in Abington?  Yes.
When?  Give me some time.  I'm in the process of figuring out 1 event that I might move to Abington.  After that I've got to work on a "Monster Mash" for Halloween.  If you don't have a monstrous creature, now might be the time to get one.

[MM3791]

After that I've got to work on a "Monster Mash" for Halloween.  If you don't have a monstrous creature, now might be the time to get one.

That's code word for rip knight lol

[Grand Master Steve]

ok honestly im not going to post more in this because it will become a flame war.

There's nothing to start a flame war about, Steve.  No worries.

You're literally the only Abington regular (excluding Rick, if he still counts ) that's come to a 40k event in Plainville maybe in all of 2013.  I'm generalizing of course, but it may be true.  I know Riley has signed up for a couple but hasn't been able to make it.

Look at the number of people the leagues that are run there attract relative to the number of people that play in tournaments.  WHFB, 40k, and WM/H have all had successful leagues in Abington this year.  Each one has been community organized and run, with the exception of the "score keeping" in the current 40k league.  It's the nature of how things currently are and currently work in Abington.  The proof seems to be in the numbers, and WM/H crowd might be the single best example of that.  Bloodbowl is another great example.  TONS of people in Abington play Bloodbowl and love it.  Ian and his friend put together an awesome tournament and got like 3-5 people to come out for it.  It was a total shame, but it's just more evidence to support the fact that the community there doesn't love tournaments (competitive events).

Abington loves engaging, casual, "let's get together and play this game" type of "events."  They do not seem to love competition for competitions sake.

To further things, there's not an employee in Abington that is taking the reins on things related to organizing miniature events.  This could be for a number of reasons that I won't get into.  When it comes time to give Abington some love it's very easy for me to justify spending my time and effort on other things.  I think, "Well, those guys have a league currently running and don't seem to turn out for tournaments in the way they do for other things so... Maybe next month."

I am very out of touch with the desires of the Abington community because I'm never there.  I only hear from you guys when you post on the boards.  I have no idea what the miniature community there wants or needs because I never hear about it.  If you guys want something or are dying to try something out, you know where to find me!    You also probably know the names of the employees there, so feel free to ask them about stuff.

Is Magic popular in Abington?  Yes.
Does it eat up a TREMENDOUS amount of the employees time?  Absolutely.
Does the amount of time Magic eats up have to do with the attention the miniature community has been given?  Yes.
Has the community there stepped up to fill in the gaps?  Yes, very much so.
Will Battleground continue to host store run 40k events in Abington?  Yes.
When?  Give me some time.  I'm in the process of figuring out 1 event that I might move to Abington.  After that I've got to work on a "Monster Mash" for Halloween.  If you don't have a monstrous creature, now might be the time to get one.

Ok fair enough. I was unaware of these statistics. I admit I got hot under the collar because its. Pain for me to get to Plainville cause I can't stay awake behind the wheel at that hour of morning plus I can't always get a hotel room as I have been its based weather or not they have space. Any way I was discussing terrain with other Abingtonites and they notice every time they make it, it goes to Plainsville and comes back damaged. I was feeling almost discriminated against as an Abington regular but I was unaware of those numbers so no hard feelings.

[Thomas callahan]

To be honest, the "room" issue is equal at both stores. Ive done 1 or 2 events at plainsville and compared to abington when they have one is more or less the same. Not alot of space.

But i think the main issue is since most 40k players are casual, they rather not take off time from work unless its something they normaly dont get to do, like doubles or 500 games. Or apocalypes .

And im right along steve D. The hour or so drive down sucks in the morning

[Achillius]

To be honest, the "room" issue is equal at both stores. Ive done 1 or 2 events at plainsville and compared to abington when they have one is more or less the same. Not alot of space.

But i think the main issue is since most 40k players are casual, they rather not take off time from work unless its something they normaly dont get to do, like doubles or 500 games. Or apocalypes .

And im right along steve D. The hour or so drive down sucks in the morning

+1

Not that I think We'll be heard. In the old store it was to support Plainville, then when all the terrain vanished it was because no one played 40k in Abington, now we're back to terrain and that if we won't go to Plainville then why should we have events in Abington, our local store that we've supported for years.

I'm going to stop now, I'm getting pissed.

[Ian Mulligan]

Two things that I feel are super relevant here: historical attendance and vocalized desires.

Attendance means a whole lot in a few ways. If events get hosted at Abington but 75% of the people who show up are driving up from the Plainville area, it makes more sense to host those kind of events down there. Making the commute easier for the people who typically populate BG's tournaments is a no-brainer.

The Abington community also has to show up to events they have hosted there. In my experiences in 40k events in the new location, there have been a few of the regular 40k guys showing up but definitely not in the numbers I would have expected. That makes demand for events look low and the store is going to plan accordingly.

My last point is if you dudes want tournaments, let Derek, Chase, Nick, Cale, whoever know! The only way to get things rolling is to make some sort of initial move. I love sitting around complaining, especially about nerd shit, but shooting Derek an email or loosely organizing something is infinitely more productive AND the only way you'll eventually get what you want. If the powers that be don't know your needs aren't being met, they won't be.

Like, seriously. I had no idea people in Abington even wanted tournaments and there's internet rage now. Its surprising.

[Ivellos]

I for one have been building and painting my 40k frantically to get back in the game recently. While I have been playing games with 2 of my close friends at home all three of us would love some competitive 40k at the Abington store preferably. Schedule permitting, that's 3 more for some events possibly 4 if its a team thing.

[MM3791]

I don't understand why some Plainville players aren't willing to drive up to a Abington tourney once a month, and vice versa.

[Benjamin]

Ian's post is a very articulate version of what I wanted to say, but didn't feel it was my place to say it.

So the plan should be for the Abington community to get together, even here on the forum, and decide what specifically they would like for an event and pick a time in which the most people can attend. BG is very accommodating when the community speaks its desires and takes tangible action, but they are not mind-readers nor do can they snap their fingers to make your dreams come true.

But if terrain is really the main factor why people aren't playing, I'm going out on a limb to say you kinda need to get over that. Some of my favorite and most educational games were played with paper towel rolls, soda cans and books.