Tau codex interpretation

[the_trooper]

So...

Is there a hard set actual rule called "Modelling for advantage"? or is it just a general "Don't be a jerk" kind of thing?

There are things we just kind of take for granted sometimes and I think this might be one of them.

[keithb]

I stopped using my tervigons on 60mm bases after the new ones came out.

It's nice that you did that, but it wasn't required.  And, like the terminators, I'll argue that it was mostly to your advantage to do so. 

Name me one advantage other than the synapse/shadows bubble being slightly larger.  Its not like I get to start closer to you, so the shadows element is rarely relevant.

What else happens?  Being on a bigger base means that blast weapons hit me more often, since they can scatter further and still hit the target.  Being a huge model also makes it much harder to get a cover save, and almost impossible to ever be completely hidden from LoS.

So, net loss.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Name me one advantage other than the synapse/shadows bubble being slightly larger.  Its not like I get to start closer to you, so the shadows element is rarely relevant.

What else happens?  Being on a bigger base means that blast weapons hit me more often, since they can scatter further and still hit the target.  Being a huge model also makes it much harder to get a cover save, and almost impossible to ever be completely hidden from LoS.

So, net loss.

For a model like a trevigon, it mostly means that your synapse range (like you said) and psychic powers can reach more (friendly) units, it more directions.  Same way people like to put banners and such in a LR so it covers a bigger footprint.  I'll grant you it's not as big as advantage as it is for a mutli-model assault unit like termies, though. 

I don't think that the model has more surface area and thus is more likely to catch a stray blast is very meaningful.  3+, T6, 6 wound models don't care very much about blasts, anyway.

Can we at least all agree that the game impact for Broadsides, if any, would be very, very minimal?  It doesn't change the range.  It makes it slightly easier to catch all 3 in a blast.  I suppose if the unit was being charged both from the back, and from the front, that would give them all of 20 mm less room to run, but when does that happen?  The unit would never even run anyway, it's strictly stand and shoot. 

It's all just a bunch of shouting about nothing. 

[Grimwulfe]

On the flip side of this argument however Matt does have a minor point.  Models are to be based with what they come with.  Now the key words here are what they come with...

In my example of the TA my models came with a 28mm base.  Per RAW I can use them.  BUT if you look at another way TA models now come with 40mm bases.  Per RAW I have to use them.  Now if we look at this a different way again and try to define what a model comes with we HAVE to use the most recent model that was released. WHY do you ask..  Because this is a new addition and models are supplied with bases appropriate for that edition.

So in conclusion by RAW both ways are correct.  But because new models with the same rules have come out this mandates that we can only use 40mm bases for TA now because that is what the TA are supplied with now.. 

[Grimwulfe]

Matt on that note I would disagree because with a smaller base you have a greater ability to hide them and put them in cover etc..  Bigger bases would hinder that and also I think the charge distance however minimal is very important I cant tell you how many times a half an inch has caused me to fail a charge.

[Sir_Prometheus]

It's only a half inch charge difference if models are charging me from both sides. (i.e., everything is borked for Tau player, anyway) Otherwise the front of the model is where it is, distance is measured from there, both for it's shooting and for your charge distance, it could be a single point for all it mattered.

Base size doesn't affect how you can hide them, model size does.  You don't draw LOS to the base, you draw it to the model. I think you actually corrected me on this once, pointing out that my scenic bases raised my termies out of cover, I was surprised at the time.

however Matt does have a minor point.

Man, it's the rule, Pg. 3 BRB. 

Tell you what, I can make everyone happy. I'll keep some 60mm cut outs in my bag.  If ever I'm playing someone and they say, "hey don't they have to be on 60mm bases" (they really don't), I'll be happy to use them, because I don't care anyway.  I'll count the number of times that actually happens in the next 3 tournaments, it'll be funny. 

[Grimwulfe]

Base size definitley matters when area terrain is involved.  Just an FYI.  Also please see above as I explain why ACCORDING to the rule you have to use 60mm.  If the model was not re-released with new bases I think you would have a very valid point.  However that is not the case and new models with new size bases have been release.

At this point its not a matter of trying to make us happy but its a matter of playing within the spirit of the game which you are trying to bend due to lwhatever reasons or just unwillingness to rebase your models.

Its a game with set perameters follow them or dont but if and when that 1 person does have an issue I hope you plan on gluing them to your 40mm bases because that is a rule.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Base size definitley matters when area terrain is involved. 

What, that if one corner of the base is in area terrain it's in area terrain?  Yeah, so?  If I want them in area terrain, they're going to be there.  This is not an issue.

.  Also please see above as I explain why ACCORDING to the rule you have to use 60mm.

You did not.  It doesn't matter if they make a new model using new bases, I don't have to use the new model nor the new bases.  You play models on what they were issued with. 

At this point its not a matter of trying to make us happy but its a matter of playing within the spirit of the game which you are trying to bend due to lwhatever reasons or just unwillingness to rebase your models.

I'm not bending any rules.  Nor am I being obstinate cuz I think it gives me some obscure rules advantage.  They're a static unit, that is for shooting only, that is probably going to end the game the same place they started.  They're not even going to be charged unless I'm already losing the game, and the base size isn't even going to matter then.

GW puts out a new model because they think it will sell better (they also nerf the rules of the old WYSIWIG, trying to coax you to upgrade, notice how they almost always do that?), they like bigger models because they think they can justify charging more for them, and they size the base appropriate to the model.  That's really the beginning and the end of that, there's no tactical consideration made when they choose a base size.  Termies wound up on 40mm bases because it looks cooler, that's it. 

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill, and it's making me angry because it's you saying I have to do modeling work (that will make them look silly) because of issues that just don't matter. 

Its a game with set perameters

You are wrong about the parameters.

 

I hope you plan on gluing them to your 40mm bases because that is a rule.

Absolutely not. 

[SiniStarR]

Idk I've always considered if a unit gets remade, such as terminators and broadsides,  then the latest model tells you what base is the "official base."

That being said I'm perfectly fine not changing my broadsides just yet but I might at some point to make a cool scenic base. I wouldn't really mind playing against older bases either, because I can understand that they use what they are based on. I'm not gonna have my day ruined by bases that are still in the grey area.

Its a game guys... Have fun!

My 2 cents

[steelforge]

Broadsides on bigger bases this matters because:

Bigger bases are easier to assault because closer.

Bigger bases means when you measure retreat you can get off the board easier.

Bigger bases mean easier to catch in a blast.

Bigger bases are harder to fit behind minimal cover.

Also, there is this cool store, called Like Battlegrounds or something that will sell you bases for money dollars!

All Your Bases Are Not Belong to Us.

[PhoenixFire]

Can we at least all agree that the game impact for Broadsides, if any, would be very, very minimal?  It doesn't change the range.  It makes it slightly easier to catch all 3 in a blast.  I suppose if the unit was being charged both from the back, and from the front, that would give them all of 20 mm less room to run, but when does that happen?  The unit would never even run anyway, it's strictly stand and shoot. 

In a game where one roll of a 6 sided dice can decide the whole match i don't think anything is minimal.

Are Tau players going to be bringing 3 broadsides anymore after the nerf? i doubt it

Do Broadsides get assaulted a lot? no, but when they do every inch counts

Having the newly legal base is very important for players who are going to be shooting small blasts and large blasts at Broadsides. I don't know about everyone else here but there's been a hundred times when my str 10 ap 2 large blast has scattered off a target by THAT much and if i ever find myself in a situation where i'm shooting them at broadsides i'm going to expect the Tau player to have the legal bases on them.

All of this is really a moot point anyway because of this...

I think I would always prefer to see models and counts as models on the appropriate base when it comes to tournaments where relatively large prizes are on the line.

It is required that people have the appropriate bases on their models.  Obviously a certain, undefined period of time will be allowed for people to convert their models over.  I'm not going to beat people up about it any time soon, but it is expected.

Chase and therefore Battlegrounds has spoken. It says it all right there, is he going to require you to run out and get new bases right away? no, but he expects everyone to have the LEGAL bases sooner or later. If you want to complain about his ruling then no one is forcing you to come to tournaments at Battlegrounds.

While Adepticon is too soon i'm willing to bet NOVA, Templecon, and all the other tournaments will be enforcing this as well.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Broadsides on bigger bases this matters because:

Bigger bases are easier to assault because closer.

Incorrect.  The front edge is where it is.  Dawn of war, you start at the depoyment line, they start at their's, you're 24" away, regardless of how big the base is.

Bigger bases means when you measure retreat you can get off the board easier.

This is true, actually. 

Bigger bases mean easier to catch in a blast.

It's actually the opposit.  Smaller bases mean more models fit under the blast.  On 60mm, even the big blast is only ever going to catch two models, if that. 

Bigger bases are harder to fit behind minimal cover.

Incorrect, it really makes no difference.  If anything the bigger bases are easier for cover, because it's easier to "toe in" to the next piece of terrain.  But on something like Broadsides that won't be moving it doesn't make much difference. 

All Your Bases Are Not Belong to Us.

+ points. 

[Sir_Prometheus]

Do Broadsides get assaulted a lot? no, but when they do every inch counts

It doesn't make them any easier to get assaulted.  Stop saying that, it's completely untrue.

[keithb]

however Matt does have a minor point.

Man, it's the rule, Pg. 3 BRB. 

Weird, I thought I saw you proclaim that you were Matt "I Love RAI" Bennett, or is that only when you disagree with RAW?

Tell you what, I can make everyone happy. I'll keep some 60mm cut outs in my bag.  If ever I'm playing someone and they say, "hey don't they have to be on 60mm bases" (they really don't), I'll be happy to use them, because I don't care anyway.  I'll count the number of times that actually happens in the next 3 tournaments, it'll be funny.

If you don't actually care, I refer you to my post earlier about being too wound up about this.  If you would have no problem doing the above.  Don't gallop into a conversation shouting for all to hear "I AM AN ASSHOLE, THIS IS HOW I WILL PLAY".

Do
You
Get
It
Yet?
(please!)

All things in moderation...

[Sir_Prometheus]

It's not about the mechanics of the base size, THAT I don't care about. 

I'm pissed that everyone thinks I should be rebasing models that actually have a scenic base based upon a GW marketing decision.  ESPECIALLY since the implications are null.

PG 3 of the rulebook says I don't have to, (RAW and RAI) and I don't want to. 

You can interpret it however you like, Keith.