Author Topic: Games Workshop has gone full retard  (Read 2436 times)

Battleground

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Re: Games Workshop has gone full retard
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2013, 12:14:47 PM »
Since the disappearance of Yu-Gi-Oh, daycare has been a non-issue.
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Erich

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Re: Games Workshop has gone full retard
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2013, 12:47:24 PM »
From what I have read and understand this "policy" is only for ONE store...the Kings Lynn store.

Chase

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Re: Games Workshop has gone full retard
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2013, 02:29:38 PM »
From what I have read and understand this "policy" is only for ONE store...the Kings Lynn store.

That's what I took from the article too.  I wonder what they've got planned.
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Chris

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Re: Games Workshop has gone full retard
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2013, 03:18:41 PM »
Some GW stores in England are about 400-600 square feet and have 1 employee; and are open 5 or 6 days a week for 30-45 hours total.  This looks to be one of those tiny stores.
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MM3791

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Re: Games Workshop has gone full retard
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2013, 11:40:42 AM »
People can say what they want about GW, fact is they make the best rules, models, and fluff. If anyone ever read the fluff for Spartan Games or Privateer Press, it looks like 6th grader fan fiction. GW produces the absolute highest quality models (check out the new High Elf Phoenix in the fantasy thread, friggin amazing) and the rules are pretty addictive too. GW has more competition now sure, but they are still king of the ring for tabletop games.

Logan007

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Re: Games Workshop has gone full retard
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2013, 12:02:46 PM »
People can say what they want about GW, fact is they make the best rules, models, and fluff. If anyone ever read the fluff for Spartan Games or Privateer Press, it looks like 6th grader fan fiction. GW produces the absolute highest quality models (check out the new High Elf Phoenix in the fantasy thread, friggin amazing) and the rules are pretty addictive too. GW has more competition now sure, but they are still king of the ring for tabletop games.

I do like the GW fluff better, but I find the rules for warmachine/hordes to better designed by far, and the various factions are much better balanced against each other as a whole. The way they handle new releases are also superior, in my mind.

andalucien

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Re: Games Workshop has gone full retard
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2013, 12:03:53 PM »
I agree about the fluff and models, but not the rules.   I think privateer and Wyrd are both way better at writing rules, and there are probably lots of other wargames I've never played (e.g. Battlefront, Dystopian wars, Dust) that rules I would prefer as well, and are much better in the objective sense of number of ambiguities and loopholes.  But I am a sucker for the models so I'm sticking with GW.
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Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Games Workshop has gone full retard
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2013, 01:21:15 PM »
People can say what they want about GW, fact is they make the best rules,

Um, what?  GW is the singular worst example of rules writing possible.  I'm talking most indie RPG's, which are not in any way competitive endeavors, and usually house ruled as you wish, have clearer and less contradictory rules.

and fluff

What 40k has is a decent concept. Gothic, grim dark, everything is spiraling down the drain in an interesting way, fantasy in space. 

The fluff is absolute crap, though.  Nearly every account of a Space marine, including the Horus Heresy, they are overgrown man-childred. Not people, not isolated zealous murderers, either, or genetically engineered warriors whose psyche and emotions have also engineered --  no, they're soap opera style, whiney, self-obsessed, 8 foot tall, children.

Seriously, Horus, supposedly one of the most perfect people in existence, was susceptible to chaos because he wasn't getting enough attention from his daddy. 

No one does anything for logical reasons, or shows any character development that is not downward.

Anyone who has ever used a chainsaw will realize that a chain sword is a ridiculous, near useless weapon.

Most of the pivotal moments of the Horus hersey boil down to "a wizard did it" and are hilariously dumb.  Even from the beginning, seriously, chaos gods teleported 20 primarchs across the galaxy?  A) If they could do that, why not kill them B ) If they can do that, what can't they do, C) If Chaos gods lay their hands on something, you really just need to consider that shit coruppted and burn it, ALL the fluff indicates that.

I think most of this stuff originated when the writers were themselves in highschool.  It started childish, and in trying to be reformed by adult writers, became sophomoric.

andalucien

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Re: Games Workshop has gone full retard
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2013, 02:36:07 PM »
I don't think we should be expecting like real literature as the fluff for our wargames :)   That's just impossible because why would someone who has a real literary vision be writing fluff for a wargame?  I'll settle for decent action blockbuster type fare, and I think GW does a good job of that.
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Loranus

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Re: Games Workshop has gone full retard
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2013, 03:13:08 PM »
Comparing the rules between 40k and War machine is like comparing My Little Pony to Texas Chainsaw Massacre. They are both war based mini games but one is about small skirmishes while the other is large based armies. War machine has an easier time since they need to worry about only a few models on the board at anytime and how they interact together. Warhammer has to worry about large scale armies working well by themselves as well as against every other army. War machine is clear and precise really cause they have very few differences between forces for special rules.
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Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Games Workshop has gone full retard
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2013, 03:56:35 PM »
Comparing the rules between 40k and War machine is like comparing My Little Pony to Texas Chainsaw Massacre. They are both war based mini games but one is about small skirmishes while the other is large based armies.

That is true, but also has nothing to do with it.  Warmachine has made a dedicated to make things clear, precise, yet easy to understand.  The same principles could easily be applied to larger scale game.  Each unit in warmachine usually has a larger array of options available to it than a 40k unit, particularly the characters and warjacks.  Warmachine is probably actually a slightly more complex game.

Warmachine has set itself up with a very technical system where there can be no ambiguity, much like Magic the Gathering or D&D 3.5.  Additionally, because that technical system can be hard to wrap your head around at first, they'll often have plain-language descriptions such as "yes, this means that". 

GW could easily choose to do all those thing, they just ffing don't, because they're a "model company, not gaming rules company".  WTF.

Consider, GW has like 3 different terms for "removed as a casualty", leading to much confusion, because people will argue "killed" or whatever is different.  ANd of course, "removed from the table" IS different, so it's even worse because we have the illusion of precise indentifiers, but they don't actually use them very consistently.  PP by conparison has terms like "boxed" which doesn't just refer to dying, but a specific stage in dying. (healing, resurrection, taking souls, using the corspese all happens at different stages)

Or, here's a favorite, consider the turbo-penetrator round of the Vindicare.  All it says is that it rolls "4d6 for Penetration".  I think most people, particularly newbies, think you should roll 4d6, then. yielding and average roll of 14.  Meaning you'd glance a Landraider 50% of the time.  But that's not it at all.  You see, you have to realize it's a sniper, so it starts with a str of 3, so the pen roll is 4d6+3.  Except, even that's not true, snipers are RENDING, and rending adds a d3 for each "6" you roll.  On which die?  ALL OF THEM.  So the real pen roll is 4d6+3 with exploding 6's, meaning you're really unlikely even to fail to pen the highest AV in the game.

I'm pretty sure that's intended. (mostly cuz they haven't clarified in 2 years) But you have to know 3 different rules, really kinda math it out to realize, and do a bit of rules lawyering besides.

Privateer press rules can sometimes reference 3 other rules like that, too, but A) It's completely unambiguous that's how it works, and B ) in case you didn't realize, they'd have a little box telling you "hey, all this means that it's 4d6+3, with an extra d3 for 6's".

GW could easily do that, but they never do.  And that's crap, utter crap. 

the_trooper

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Re: Games Workshop has gone full retard
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2013, 04:44:15 PM »
My Cygnar army hits the table with more models than most paladin GK armies.

Just sayin'.

Also, I was going to post something about rules and clarity but I think Sir_Prometheus covered it pretty well.