Stuff to FAQ for Daemons?

[PhoenixFire]

it is apparently that time already, new codex means new stuff that needs an faq.

from BOLS

ISSUE #1 - Burning Chariot of Tzeentch
Ok, now follow me through this...

The Exalted Flamer (C) is the Rider of the Chariot.
The vehicle he's riding is a Chariot, Open-Top, Fast, Skimmer.
Both of the Exalted Flamer's weapons are Heavy.
He is also the lone shooter, his chariot doesn't actually shoot.
He is not Relentless.

What does this mean?
He can't shoot if he moves.  Well, he can shoot the Blue Fire, but it'll be Snap Fire.  He can't shoot his Pink Fire at all.

Uhhh... what is the point of even having this unit?  He can't do crap, even after after a DS.

ISSUE #2 - Herald Shenanigans
Some of the named characters such as Masque and Blue Scribes are not listed under Heralds.

Why does this matter?
Because they do not fit under the 4:1 rule.  You literally have to buy them separate, taking up another HQ slot.  For what?  An 75/81 point model?  You've got to be kidding...
Phil, tell us that it's just a typo - please!

Lastly, some people are bothered with this:
Heralds are 4:1, but only for Primary detachment:  "Each primary detachment in your army may include up to four Heralds of Chaos.........This selection uses a single HQ slot".

This means that CSM players can only take 1 Herald as Allies.  However, I'm willing to let this one slide due to game balance sakes.

PS:  Oh, and for Pete's sake, replace Warpflame's "end of the game" with "turn".  Please, thank you.  Phil - help some gamers out - we need you man!

i don't play Daemons so i don't know what else is out there

[Benjamin]

Print books, then edit.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Print books, then edit.

Lol.  Remembering the DA disgrace of an errata. 

[the_trooper]

I'm remembering the "BUY MORE HELDRAKES" portion of the Chaos one...

[Sir_Prometheus]

So, can we actually get a ruling on the burning chariot thing?  If I tell the guy, "no, I'm sorry, if you move you can't shoot your torrent" how big a dick am I being? 

Cuz to me, that's obviously not what they intended.  But you guys (mostly) are all cult of RAW, and that it is clearly what the rules actually say. 

[PhoenixFire]

So, can we actually get a ruling on the burning chariot thing?  If I tell the guy, "no, I'm sorry, if you move you can't shoot your torrent" how big a dick am I being? 

Cuz to me, that's obviously not what they intended.  But you guys (mostly) are all cult of RAW, and that it is clearly what the rules actually say.

well he CAN shoot it... just can't move and shoot it. I agree it's probably not RAI, maybe the guy is supposed to have relentless.

GW has been quick lately with FAQs so hopefully they follow suite here, if not Sam is going to have to make a call before the 1850 at the end of the month so people can plan ahead

No Daemon player is going to want to bring these with a certain plan in their mind only to find out they can't use it the day of.

[BrianP]

Has there been ruling or clarity on the Slaneesh initiative modifier problem? Apparently the assault rules explicitly state you walk initiative steps from 10 to 1 and the -5 I modifier can easily reduce a model to 0... which would be outside of the 10-1 attack steps (and thus render the model with 0 I unable to attack).

While I think it is not what was intended, I did watch 2 gents argue about it on Sunday so I figured I would see if it needed to be added to the list of FAQs.

[Sir_Prometheus]

I am not sure what happens when you try to force an Initiative below 1 (personally inclined to just say that 1 is the bottom) but regardless I do not see "unable to attack" as a valid interpretation. 

[Grimwulfe]

There is no such thing as I 0 so it becomes a 1

[Sir_Prometheus]

While I think it is not what was intended, I did watch 2 gents argue about it on Sunday so I figured I would see if it needed to be added to the list of FAQs.

So, one of them was trying to say the rules said divide by zero, a singularity occurs, and so you can't attack, and they were both "gents"?  Error, error, does not compute. 

[keithb]

So, can we actually get a ruling on the burning chariot thing?  If I tell the guy, "no, I'm sorry, if you move you can't shoot your torrent" how big a dick am I being? 

Cuz to me, that's obviously not what they intended.  But you guys (mostly) are all cult of RAW, and that it is clearly what the rules actually say.

If a bad rule results in a model not selling, they usually FAQ it pretty fast.  That is really the onyl time.

[BrianP]

There is no such thing as I 0 so it becomes a 1

Legitimately curious why you say this, as the rulebook allows for zero-level characteristics.

I am not sure what happens when you try to force an Initiative below 1 (personally inclined to just say that 1 is the bottom) but regardless I do not see "unable to attack" as a valid interpretation. 

I have no dog in this fight, was just passing along an observation as I can see either side of it. If a model's strength, toughness, or wounds is reduced to zero it dies. If its WS or attacks are reduced to zero it cannot strike... whether right or not, I can see why someone would assume initiative works similarly to WS or A of 0, especially when the combat rules explicitly say there are 10 initiative steps, ending at 1.

HOWEVER... GW also explicitly included rules for what to do with nearly all zero-level characteristics. If they wanted I0 to have no attacks, why not include it with the part about WS or A like they did when they grouped S, T and W together. You could also argue the 10->1 initiative was an oversight, and I0 just goes after I1 (meaning after power fists, axes, and models charging through terrain without grenades).

All-in-all I can see both sides and the solution does not appear cut-and-dry, to me at least. 

[Sir_Prometheus]

I'm not really interested in how rules can be misread to generate ridiculous situations.  It's good to remind everyone that GW does not write precise rules using technical language--they often do not even try.  (almost unfortunately, they DO try (usually fail) sometimes, leading to unrealistic expectations in other instances)

I think it's pretty clear that the initiative system bottoms at 1 and caps at 10.  It's not explicitly said , but I nonetheless think it's pretty clear.  A reasonable person could maybe wonder if you can have initiative 0 or less, though.

A reasonable person could not assume that leaves you unable to attack. 

[Sir_Prometheus]

Second time I've noticed it.....you know what agreement sounds like on the internet? 

Silence. 

[PhoenixFire]

Well the FAQ is out in german and of course says nothing about the questions we actually had

FAQ's are out in German now, and of course we have the google translations for them. It seems like a lot of the answers that we were hoping for, did not make it. However, taking a closer look, everything that was answered was erratas, not actual Faqs. So perhaps this is just a quick answer to some serious issues in German.


I fully expect that this simply deals wth rules issues in German, and that a proper FAQ is on its way shortly. So lets not jump on the this sucks because none of the questions were answered scenario. The update is only in German, and included no Faq questions, only erratas.

via Hero's Gaming Blog by Hero

From the German site, because they always get stuff faster than us:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m3080052a_GER_Chaosdaemonen_v1.0a_Maerz13.pdf

Google translate:
Errata
Page 26 - demon of Tzeentch
replace the last sentence with the following: "In addition
Tzeentch demons repeat all protection drafts
of 1 "

Page 49, 100, Sections - disease drones device-type,
change the device-type to "cavalry with schwebemo
Module "or cavalry with floating module (Charaktermo
dell) ".

Page 66 - powerful rewards, Obesity
change the sentence as follows: "the demon has +1 life
point and the special rule it does not die. "

Page 104 - demon of Tzeentch
Change the last half sentence as follows: "protect drafts of 1
be "repeated.

Summary - Icon of Chaos
replace the first paragraph with the following: "If
you the melee bestimmst result, you add one
Results point to your website, in particular if the
melee at least one friendly unit with an
Bound icon of chaos. "


NOTHING about the Tzeentch Chariot.
NOTHING about Masque and Blue Scribes not being Heralds.
NOTHING about Fiends reducing I to 0.
NOTHING about Heralds being Primary detachment only.