Author Topic: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?  (Read 6753 times)

Thomas callahan

  • Order
  • Heroic Tier Level 9
  • **
  • Posts: 330
    • Email
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2013, 03:32:40 PM »
No offence to anyone, but why are you hounding chase so much for FW army and list to be legal just after they experimented letting be allowed in the doubles? Most of you posting here are loyal BG goers and know if its the stores best interest then you will see more FW allowed in events.

You also should see the difficulty they will have on deciding this. Let alone some of the FW rules are not bad, what stops a person from bring something cheesy and playing a new kid to the game, maybe 1st tornment and ends up getting stomped? What it means is BG loses a customer. You can argue the point that its very unlikely to happen, but from BG possition they have to make sure what they allow is something that wont drive away new customers or people who have small wallets,

So give chase and his crew some time to work out on what THEY want to do for their tornaments
2013
Blood bowl W14-L14-T1
40K 0-0
Hords 2-1

keithb

  • Epic Tier Level 24
  • ****
  • Posts: 811
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2013, 03:52:09 PM »
No offence to anyone, but why are you hounding chase so much for FW army and list to be legal just after they experimented letting be allowed in the doubles? Most of you posting here are loyal BG goers and know if its the stores best interest then you will see more FW allowed in events.

You also should see the difficulty they will have on deciding this. Let alone some of the FW rules are not bad, what stops a person from bring something cheesy and playing a new kid to the game, maybe 1st tornment and ends up getting stomped? What it means is BG loses a customer. You can argue the point that its very unlikely to happen, but from BG possition they have to make sure what they allow is something that wont drive away new customers or people who have small wallets,

So give chase and his crew some time to work out on what THEY want to do for their tornaments

They've had plenty of time(years), and thus far have mostly denied FW lists from being legal.  I don't see why we cant discuss one of the major barriers to allowing them more often.

If chase wants to, he can say no FW, and not give a reason.  He gave one, so why not discuss it's validity.  If we can discuss it, and show that a large percentage of the community wants it, maybe the status quo will change.  Chase is very free with his posts, if he feels like we are ganging up on him or 'hounding' him, he will let us know.

MM3791

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1124
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2013, 03:57:03 PM »
You also should see the difficulty they will have on deciding this. Let alone some of the FW rules are not bad, what stops a person from bring something cheesy and playing a new kid to the game, maybe 1st tornment and ends up getting stomped?

dude that doesn't make any difference.. I get my ass stomped by regular lists lol

Sir_Prometheus

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1573
    • Email
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2013, 04:40:05 PM »
My point with the earlier FW I own was this:  I'm using most of those models anyway, since I'm using them as regular 40k models (the majority is actually doors and whatnot).  So for it to have a financial effect, Chase would basically have to say "No FW models allowed" not "no FW rules allowed".  For various reasons, I don't think that would really fly and I doubt Chase would consider doing so. 

I can lay out other realities of the situation -- my only significant contribution to BG is through tournament entry fees, so~ about $20 a month.  I sometimes buy paint and primer (GW primer is expensive but really good) -- I'd probably buy more if BG carried decent paintbrushes that weren't GWs (ripoff cost).  It's also be great if they carried Vallejo or Reaper paints. 

I'm an "established gamer", I already have most of the models I need.  I spend a $300 when GK came out, mostly because my halberd carrying power armor GK weren't suitable to be GKSS (well played, GW), and, y'know, Stormraven and Dreadknight.  I'll probably spend another $200 when Tau comes out, probably'll want to buy the rumored "uber-suit" and maybe new Crisis -- but I have A LOT of Tau models laying around, I may not buy very much. 

The biggest chance for me to actually randomly spend large amounts of money would be if I say, randomly decided to build a khorne demon army....which I may not just because people tend accuse of jumping on the latest band-wagon-- despite the fact that I have never done that, not once. 

King of the Elves

  • Guest
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2013, 05:16:18 PM »
I just want to put my 2 cents in:

 I'm a young kid with a job who pays for his own minis, paints, glue, and entry fees (from a job, not a allowance). I think FW models are badass, & if I had the money, I would do a Drop Troop army or a Eldar Air Force or Titan army. I don't have any problem with playing ageist FW units/ armies, for example: In the past doubles we got stomped pretty bad by a Dreadknight, but I still had fun. I am looking forward to buying some FW units and books in the future, and hope Chase will allow them in more tourneys, but if that wish does not come true, I 100% understand,

the_trooper

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2549
  • Pay where you play.
    • Email
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2013, 05:41:16 PM »
The biggest chance for me to actually randomly spend large amounts of money would be if I say, randomly decided to build a khorne demon army....which I may not just because people tend accuse of jumping on the latest band-wagon-- despite the fact that I have never done that, not once.

People say that about everyone.

Sir_Prometheus

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1573
    • Email
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2013, 06:05:18 PM »
The biggest chance for me to actually randomly spend large amounts of money would be if I say, randomly decided to build a khorne demon army....which I may not just because people tend accuse of jumping on the latest band-wagon-- despite the fact that I have never done that, not once.

People say that about everyone.

Well, that's reassuring. 

Chase

  • Global Moderator
  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 5433
    • Email
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2013, 06:44:22 PM »
I like this thread.  It has offered some perspective.

It has been my plan, since Abington has the space to host events, to experiment more and more with FW.  You can expect to see the events there incorporate FW more and more.


One thing that I think should be discussed is the incentive that allowing FW offers a person to NOT start a new army either ever, or for an extended amount of time.  How much longer does the life of an army last when you're not only limited by mixing and matching codex units to form army lists, but also the FW options for your army?

I really, truly want people to love the army or armies they have.  I also want them to start new armies as often as possible.  I am not sure the widespread allowance of FW at our events helps this more than it hurts it, although based on what people here are saying it might be closer than I first thought.


If it's fair to assume people start new armies because they are bored or mostly "done" experimenting with their current choice (which may or may not be true), does allowing FW extend or eliminate the time in between army 1 and army 2? 

Does it end a players incentive to buy, say, 4 boxes of Thunderwolves or Bloodcrushers just so they can try something crazy at an event? (in favor of spending the extra 150 on something cool from FW) A bad example, but it happens.

Does the new, younger player save up for something awesome from FW instead of buying 2-3 more boxes of stuff, which represents 2-3 months worth of his spending?

Do people start buying FW models primarily because they're veteran gamers who have explored the hobby to the extent that they see fit?  Will these people buy FW models anyway?  Is BG worried about this?

How much do people actually consider their spending when new army books come along?  Do people think about and consider the investment or do they just do what they want?  If they do consider it, would they also consider investing X hundred dollars in the FW stuff they've been eyeing instead of the new army book now that they know they can use it in all / some / most of BG games and events?

How do people / players weight their "wants" and how does allowing FW factor in to that?  If a player skips out on the Chaos Demon release because he'd prefer to pick up 2-3 models for FW instead, that hurts quite a bit long term.  (And comes back to the delaying of a new army due to FW.  Same point really.)

These are just some of the easier points to communicate via text.



If we are assuming that the allowance of FW is primarily based on the impact it'll have on sales at both BG locations in the present and near future the discussion boils down to:

Are there more players that would be incentivised to buy GW models from BG by the allowance of FW than there would be players that use FW to supplement exsisting armies / ideas, therefore delaying or totally eliminating GW purchases into the future?

It is my belief that the allowance of FW in all /many events increases the "life" of an army a considerable amount.  Secondarily, it's likely to increase FW awareness and FW "culture" in and around the stores (Plainville, mainly).  I believe that both of these things are less than ideal for the business.  This is also to say nothing for the buying habits / trends in the long term (years), and how I believe the allowance of FW to adversely effect that.


It would be fantastic to be convinced that I am wrong and that these are not legitimate concerns.  Either way I think players can expect to see more BG events that do allow some or all FW models than we've ever done before.  I'm a lot less against FW now than I was 1 year ago.  Lots of what's going on here is dramatized for effect, although the points are probably not less valid.


I'm interested in how many events out there allow FW and are NOT put on by clubs.  I feel like every time I see an event that allows FW it is not put on buy a store (a for profit business).  I suspect there's a reason for that.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 03:46:14 AM by Chase »
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
- Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

Imp

  • Paragon Tier Level 15
  • ***
  • Posts: 518
  • ImpsCorner.com
    • Imp's Corner
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2013, 09:03:31 PM »


dont care where you them but these WILL always be legal in my book
Children yet, the tale to hear, Eager eye and willing ear, Lovingly shall nestle near.  In a Wonderland they lie, Dreaming as the days go by, Dreaming as the summers die: Ever drifting down the stream --Lingering in the golden gleam --Life, what is it but a dream?

Sir_Prometheus

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1573
    • Email
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2013, 10:35:01 PM »
Quote
Do people start buying FW models primarily because they're veteran gamers who have explored the hobby to the extent that they see fit?  Will these people buy FW models anyway?

This, mostly, I think.

steelforge

  • Heroic Tier Level 2
  • **
  • Posts: 97
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2013, 11:28:21 PM »
I think it is highly important to distinguish FW rules from FW models.
Case in point the last FW legal doubles I played in, I wanted to use Kroot riders.
I am not paying over £100 for 3 models.
I went to bg and bought stuff from the Fantasy line to proxy.

Week later when I was told that wasn't legal I went and bought a piranha at bg to convert to a tetra.
Again $30 for 1 resin model verses $20 without s&h I'm paying 20 as I get to convert it.

Bg gets paid I get a rules set to help a flagging army.

Benjamin

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2610
    • Email
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2013, 01:50:06 AM »
I defer to Chase, since he sees the real actual not-made-up numbers.

Sir_Prometheus

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 1573
    • Email
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2013, 02:07:36 AM »
I defer to Chase, since he sees the real actual not-made-up numbers.

???  ?!?

1) Who wasn't deferring to Chase?

2)  Who made up numbers?

3) I don't know the numbers, but I know the sets of data Chase could have.  I'm don't think any of those numbers really predict the answer to "If I allow N more FW rules, I will see +/- X reg GW sales". 

We're all just trying to help guess an answer.  (with, y'know, minor lobbying thrown in)  The only real way to KNOW would be to try it, of course.  My guess is that the delta would be insignificant, the only real effect being to make some die-hards happy.  (I'm probably not actually one of those die-hards.  Well, maybe, just barely) 

Benjamin

  • God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2610
    • Email
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2013, 02:50:06 AM »
I won't bang my head against this topic, too. There is no such thing as Forge World trickle-down.

My only concern is if players refuse to play in tournaments in which FW is not allowed. Will anyone flat-out refuse to play without FW?

Achillius

  • Epic Tier Level 26
  • ****
  • Posts: 891
Re: Forgeworld at BG tournaments?
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2013, 07:29:19 AM »

My only concern is if players refuse to play in tournaments in which FW is not allowed. Will anyone flat-out refuse to play without FW?

Yes there are, and its already happening, allow FW and see people who are not often seen in tournaments showing up more often.
But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed...

"When Ghandi advocated his philosophy of none violence, I bet he didn't know how much fun it was killing stuff!" (Raj, The big bang theory)