Author Topic: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.  (Read 9861 times)

PhoenixFire

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #105 on: February 26, 2013, 07:34:24 PM »
Here is a more complete and far better translated copy of Daemons rumors.

#11 still scares the shit out of me and will make be seriously reconsider taking expensive HQs that are also psykers

Quote
A massive rule dump has been made. The translations for them are below, as well as the original text.

This all comes to us via Bell of Lost Souls from GW Fanworld

English Translation
via Norman Mach

The old placement of the army is gone.
No flyers, but flying MCs.
Demons belong to a god and have hatred to demons of an opposing god. Furthermore a Slaanesh Herald for example can't joint nurgle demons.
Khorne: Furios charge, HoW with chariot is S7
Tzeentch: +3 on Ld for casting PSI, reroll of failded inv. saves of 1
Nurgle: Shrouded, slow (don't remember the english rule name), every unit consisting just of Nurgle Demons counts equiped with defence grenade
Slaanesh: Rending and fleet, Slaanesh-only unit runs D6+3". Slaanesh cavallerie runs 6" more. Vehicles (no walker) move 3" more in the shooting phase.

Demonic Instability
Units with these rule can't be joined by a model without these role. Unit pass every Ld., pinning or fear test. If the demons are loosing a CC they must test with 2D6. The difference between mod. Ld and dice roll is the number of additional wounds without saves!
Double 1: Every lost wound in this phase is restored. Every removed model comes back.
Double 6: Remove the whole unit.

Warlord:
1) Every CC weapon of the warlord gains instant death.
2)Warlord and unit has hatred against everyone
3) As long as the WL is alive every enemy gets -1 for fear tests
4) Friendly units choosen from these codex in 12" of the WL can reroll failed demonic instability tests
5) As long as the WL is alive you can reroll every roll on the warpfire table
6) As long as the WL was on the table at the beginning of the turn, every unit with the rule demon (including from Codex: Chaos) coming via deepstrike won't scatter if the first model is placed in 6" of the WL

Warpfire table
Is only active when demons are the main army. Role 2D6 at the beginn of the demon shooting phase and apply the result.
2) Every unit with demonic inst. (friend and foe) has to test for it
3) Choose randomly one character with demonic inst. rule. Test with 3D6. Wounds can only applied to the character.
4) Every unit with demon gets -1 for inv. saves until next roll on the table
5) Roll 1D6 for every unit not in CC which contains at least one model with the sign(?) of nurgle or demon of nurgle. If you roll a six place the 5" template on the model of the unit and scatter as normal. S4 AP5 for friend and foe, ignores cover.
6) Like Nr. 5 just for Tzeentch. D6 hits with S4 AP3. Ingores cover, poison (4+), vehicles get a hit at side armour.
7) Nothing happens.
8) Roll one D6 for every Khorne unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - D6 hits with S6 AP-. Ignores cover and rending, vehicles get a hit on the side armour.
9) Roll one D6 for every Slaanesh unit or enemy unit not in CC. On a six - place 3" template. Every unit (friend and foe) gets one hit for every model with S8 AP 3. Count as barrage weapon.
10) Every demon gets +1 on the inv. save.
11) Choose random one enemy Psyker (no vehicle, no demon, must be on the table). Has to take Ld test with 3D6, if he fails, he will be removed. Place a new herald of your choice without upgrades within 6". Not allowed to charge.
12) Place instantly a new unit with 2D6+3 demons (Bloodletters, pink horrors, demonettes or plague bearers, your choice) via deep strike,

Demons have 6+ armour, some have better saves (blood demon has 3+).
Blood demon no eternal warrior. The skulltaker(?) has eternal warrior and 3+ armour. Skarbrand and Karanak don't have eternal warrior. Lord of Change is Mastery Lv. 2 (divination and change(?)) and flying MC.
11 to15 pink horrors generate two warppoints, 16 to 20 horrors three warppoints. Kairos has a 4+ inv. save. Each of Kairos heads is a Lv. 4 Psyker. Both heads knew every change spell. In addition gains the right head on power from pyro and one divination. Left head - one pyro and one telepathy. Have to decide which head you use these turn. Can reroll one D6 every player turn (even from 2D6 or 3D6).
The blue Tzeentch demons are no psykers, but can use one power from the rulebook rolled with the dice without psy test.
Changeling in basecontact can replace one his stats (WS, S, T, I and/ or A) with one the enemy.
Big plague demon has mastery lv. 1 and plague and biomanty.
Nurgle slime beast can charge in the enemy phase! Ku'Gath can give wounds back to Nurgle Swarms.
Epidemus and his special rule
Count every unsaved wound caused by a demon of nurgle (friend and foe). Count even lost wounds saved by fnp or reanimation protocolls. Every Nurgle unit in 6" of Epidemus gains following bonus (cumulative)
7+: +1 strength
14+: +1 toughness
21+: poison (2+)
28+: fnp (4+)

Keeper of secrets has prefered enemy Eldar/ Dark Eldar. Mastery Lv. 1 telepathy and Slaanesh party lore.
The mask can reroll every failed inv. save. Has different dance.
There are chaos furies (maybe chaos harpyies in english).

Flame weapon of tzeentch - SR warpflame. At the end of every phase a unit with an unsaved wound caused by it has to make a Toughness test. Fail - D3 more hits withour armour or cover, passed - gains fnp 6+. If the unit has already fnp it be better by +1.
A unit hit by a skullcannon can be charged withount Ini loss caused by difficult terrain.
Axe of Khorne: Instant death by a to wound roll of 6.
Mutated warpsword (Tzeentch) If the bearer kills an enemy Character or MC roll a D6. On a +2 it be replaced with a chaos spawn.
Warp...(Tzeentch): A character or MC killed by the staff of change will explode. Every unit in D6" will gain D6 S5 AP- hits.
Plagueweapon: Models with one unsaved wound caused by these weapon have to pass a Toughness test or will loose another wound (no armour or cover).
Sword (Slaanesh). Like plagueweapon, but with Ini test.

A lot of characters don't buy equiment. They buy gifts in three different levels for points. What exacly these gifts are will be choosen random (D6). Roll at the same time as for the Warlord trait. One model can't have a gift twice (reroll), but you can have a gift more than one time in your army. You can replace one of the gifts with the 0. You gain a weapon or artefact for it (just one example given in the german text - Blade with Ap2, mastercrafted and special weapon).

Skarbrand or Blood Demon make demon princes of Khorne to Heavy Support instead of HQ.
Kairos and Lord of Change do the same for Tzeentch.
Ku'Gath and Big Nurgle demon for Nurgle.
Lord of Secrets does it for Slaanesh.

Damonprince 145 points, has to choose one god:
Khorne 15p.
Tzeentch 25p.
Nurgle 15p.
Slaanesh 10p.
Can be a flying MC for 40 points.
Up to 50 points for gifts (Lv. 1 gift 10p. Lv. 2 20p. Lv. 3 30).
Demon Prince not can be a psyker (not Khorne)
Mastery Lv. 1 25p.
Lv. 2 50p.
Lv. 3 75p.

Heralds counts only as a half HQ choice. They have special presences. which can be upgraded and give the unit a bonus.
Icons can be upgraded for unique effects and instruments can get more units out of reserve and give you rerolls on the warpstorm table.

Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #106 on: February 26, 2013, 08:18:25 PM »
#11 still scares the shit out of me and will make be seriously reconsider taking expensive HQs that are also psykers

Unless you're GK player, and then those are all ya got.  (well, except for barebones Inquisitors)  Tyranids have it almost worse. 

Yeah, yeah, I know, let's all weep for the poor GK player. /sarcasm.

Point is, if true, it's just bad game design.  Generally speaking, all this random, let's throw dice in the wind stuff is bad game design, except in very limited, exact circumstances (most times with Orks, it's been ok) and we've seen a whole lot more of it. 

PhoenixFire

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #107 on: February 27, 2013, 10:00:56 AM »
More accurate more detailed translation


Quote

Daemons
Daemon belong to a specific god and have USR Hatred for their opposing god (Nurgle/Tzeentch, Khorne/Slaanesh). Herald of one god cannot join a unit from another god.

Khorne USR: Rage, Re-Roll Charge distance

Tzeentch: +3 LD for Psykic tests, Re-Roll Saves of 1

Nurgle: Slow and Purposefull, Shrouded, Defensive Grenades

Slaanesh: Rending, Move thru Cover, +3” to run distance for infantry, +6 “to run distance for cavalry (only if the whole unit is cavalry), +3” Flat out for chariots

 Daemonic Instability
Units with this USR may not be joined by units without this USR. Unit passes all Fear, Pinning and Moral tests. If a Unit with this USR looses in Close Combat, it must test for Instability on 2D6.

If the test is failed, the Unit takes wounds equal to the difference between its LD value and the roll.

If you roll Double 1, all wounds lost in this combat are restored. Place lost models back on the table

If you roll Double 6, the whole unit is removed from play.



Warlord Table
War Lord Table:
1)Warlord gains Instant Death USR
2)Warlord and his unit gain Hatred (Everything) USR
3)As long as the War Lord is alive, your opponent test for Fear at -1 LD
4) As Long as the War Lord is alive, units within 12” of the War Lord may re-roll Daemonic Instability
5) As long as the War Lord is alive, you may re-roll results on the Warp Storm Table
6)Units with the Daemon USR may Deep Strike within 6” of the War Lord without scatter.

Warp Storm Table
The Warp Storm Table is only used when Chaos Daemons are your Primary Detachment. Roll on the Warp Storm Table at the beginning of the Daemon Players Shooting Phase

2) The Storm is receding: All units with the Daemonic Instability USR (Friend and Foe) immediately test for Daemonic Instability

3) Punishment of the Gods: A random character model with Daemonic Instability (Friend or Foe) immediately tests for Daemonic Instability on 3D6. Wounds suffered in this manner can only be allocated to that model.

4) Warp Quake: All models with the Daemon USR suffer a -1 penalty to their saves until the next roll on this chart (friend or foe)

5) Storm of Fire: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Nurgle USR or Mark of Nurgle or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, place a large blast marker on one of the models in the unit. Scatter 2D6. All models under the template suffer a S4 AP5 Ignore Cover, Pinning hit ).

6) Glorious Rot: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Tzeentch or Mark of Tzeentch or enemy unit not locked in combat. On a roll of a 6, the unit suffers D6 S4 AP3 Poison (4+) hits. Vehicles are hit on Side Armor.

7) Calm Warp: Nothing happens

8) The Dark Prince Thirsts: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Khorne USR or Mark of Khorne or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, the unit suffers D6 S6 AP- Ignore Cover, Rending hits.

9) Khornes Rage: Roll a D6 for every unit with the Daemon of Slaanesh USR or Mark of Slaanesh or enemy unit that is not locked in combat. On a roll of 6, center a small blast marker on a model of your choice in the unit and scatter 2D6. Models under the blast template suffer a S8 AP 3 Pinning hit.

10) Warp Flood: All units with the Daemon USR gain +1 to all saving throws until the next roll on the Warp Storm Table (friend or foe)

11) Daemonic Possesion: A random enemy non-vehicle .Psyker that is not a daemon must pass a Leadership test on 3D6. If the test is failed, the Psyker is removed from play. Place a Herald of a god of your choice within 6" of the removed model. The Herald does not receive any upgrades.

12) Blessing of the Warp: A new unit of 2D6+3 Bloodletters, Pink Horrors, Daemonetts or Plaguebearers (your choice) arrives via deep strike.



All Daemons have a 6+ Armor Save. Some daemons (for example Bloodthirster have a 3+)

Bloodthirster lost EW

Skulltaker has EW and 3+ Armor

Lord Of Change is Level 2 Psyker and Flying FMC

11-15 Pink Horrors generate 2 Warp Points, 16-20 generate 3

Fateweaver has a 4++, Level 4 Psyker. He knows all Tzeentch powers. Right Head knows one power from Pyromancy and Divination, Left Head knows one power from Telepathy and Pyromancy. Declare which head you want to use at the beginning of each turn. May re-roll a single D6 each phase.

Blue Scribes are not Psykers, but generate one power each turn from the main rule book. They can use that power without rolling a psykic test.

The Changeling may exchange any of his stats with an enemy non-vehicle model stat in base contact (WS, S, W, I, A) until the end of the turn

Great Unclean One is Psyker Level 1, Biomancy and Nurgle

Beasts of Nurgle can charge in the opponents turn.

Ku'Gath can regenerate wounds on Nurgling Swarms

Epi only effects Daemons of Nurgle within 6" and tally works based on unsaved wounds caused by Daemons of Nurgle:
7+: +1 Strength
14+: +1 Toughness
21+: 2+ poison
28+: 4+ Feel No Pain

Keeper of Secrets has Prefered Enemy Eldar and Dark Eldar. Psyker Level 1, Telepathy and Slaanesh

The Mask re-rolls all failed saves. It has multiple different dances

There are Chaos Furies

Flamers of Tzeench: If they caused a wound, take a test every turn for that unit. If the test is failed, you take D3 wounds, if you pass the test, you gain FNP (6+)

 Skull Cannon: If you assault a unit that has been hit by a shot from the Skull Cannon, you suffer no initiative penalty for assaulting thru difficult terrain.

Axe of Khorne: Instant Death on a roll of 6 to wound.

Mutated Warpknife (Tzeentch): If it kills a enemy Character or MC, that model is turned into a Chaos Spawn on a roll of 2+

Warp Poisoning: If a Character or MC looses its last wound due to a Close Combat attack from the Staff of Change, all units within D6 inches (friend and foe) suffer D6 hits at S5 AP -

Mace of Disease: Models that suffer an unsaved wound from this weapon must pass a Toughness Test or suffer an additional wound. No saves of any kind can be taken to prevent this additional wound.

 Many Characters cannot buy equipment, but can buy Minor, Major and Legendary enhancements for a certain point cost. These are randomly determined at the same time as Warlord Traits are rolled. You may have the same enhancements more than once on each character, but the random result can only be applied once to each character. Re-roll doubles. Rolls can be exchanged for special weapons.

Minor Boons
Result 0: (May replace roll on the chart)
Magical Weapon: Etherknife (AP2, Mastercrafted, Specialist Weapon)
Daemon of Khorne may take an Axe of Khorne instead
Daemon of Tzeench may take a Staff of Change instead
Daemon of Nurgle mau take a Mace of Disease instead
Daemon of Slaanesh may take a Ghost Sword(?) instead

Daemon Princes
Skarbrand and Bloodthirster make Khorne DP Heavy Support
Fateweaver and Lord of Change make Tzeentch DP Heavy Support
Ku'Gath and Great Unclean One make DP of Nurgle Heavy Support
Keeper of Secrets makes DP of Slaanesh Heavy Support

 DP costs 145 pts
Khorne +15 pts
Tzeentch +25 pts
Nurgle +15 pts
Slaanesh +10 pts
Daemonic Flight 40 pts
May take up to 50 points of gifts
none khorne DPs can buy Psyker levels up to level 3 at 25pts/lvl

Heralds may still be taken 2 per HQ slot. Every Herald adds a Boon to the unit he joins.

 Icons can improve certain effects. Instruments can "summon" reserves or modify the result of the Warp Storm Table.

It's interesting that buying wargear upgrades are random and figured out the same time as psychic powers, possibility of certain units being made into heavy support just before the game (guess that is good for "heavy metal" scoring.

the dreaded #11 doesn't seem to be going away, if anything it may be getting slightly worse with the addition of this

Quote
Icons can improve certain effects. Instruments can "summon" reserves or modify the result of the Warp Storm Table.

right now there is only about a 10% chance of it happening every turn, if this "modify results" ends up being a +1/-1 that goes up dramatically.

As matt pointed out obviously this is going to be a serious problem for GK and Nids, and will certainly enter into the thinking for me when i'm making army lists depending how popular Daemons get after this.

Like i said before i wonder if all this crazy random random randomness will even appeal to a serious tournament player who doesn't build lists relying on luck or chance.

This is an interesting little tidbit about demonic instability

Quote
If you roll Double 1, all wounds lost in this combat are restored. Place lost models back on the table

If you roll Double 6, the whole unit is removed from play.

now granted daemons usually don't lose a lot of assaults but it does open the door for a 10% chance to either get your guys back or completely wipe out an expensive "death star" unit

Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #108 on: February 27, 2013, 11:47:28 AM »
Quote
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2013/02/chaos-daemon-rules-better-translation.html

I don't mind that, that's fine.  Most of it's fine, some it's great.  I'm a little worried some of the changes might be too punishing, but it'll be left up to point costs and lot of other things to see if it's competitive, or not. 

The warp storm table seems a lot more bad than good for the demon player.  But that doesn't keep # 11 from pissing me off. 

Chances of getting #11 are 1 in 18, I believe.  (it's 1/36 for each comination of dice, and two lead to 11 -- a 5&6 and 6&5, so that's 2/36=1/18)  So, 5.55 Percent.  But, take that over 5 turns.... (it's 1-.944^5, btw)....you have about a 25% chance of it happening.

So assuming a 5 round game, 1/4 of your games will have that result come at least once.  Yes, any gear they have to modify that will make it much worse. 


MM3791

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #109 on: February 27, 2013, 03:15:52 PM »
But my porridge is too hot, but my porridge is too cold  :P The only thing I care about is that there will be plenty of codexes for sale on Saturday. I would like a Keeper of Secrets as well as a squad of daemonettes and plaugebearers but the codex is the most important; every time I think about it my mouth goes dry..

Chase

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #110 on: February 27, 2013, 03:37:40 PM »
But my porridge is too hot, but my porridge is too cold  :P The only thing I care about is that there will be plenty of codexes for sale on Saturday. I would like a Keeper of Secrets as well as a squad of daemonettes and plaugebearers but the codex is the most important; every time I think about it my mouth goes dry..

Keeper of Secrets is a special order only thing now, unfortunately.  Otherwise we'll have all of that for as long as supplies last in Plainville on Saturday.
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
- Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

MM3791

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #111 on: February 27, 2013, 03:42:50 PM »
Keeper of Secrets is a special order only thing now, unfortunately.  Otherwise we'll have all of that for as long as supplies last in Plainville on Saturday.

Ahh special order may reinforce the 2nd wave greater daemon theory.. ok thanks Chase, I'll be there 10:00AM with cash lol

PhoenixFire

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #112 on: February 27, 2013, 03:51:18 PM »
If the DA codex release taught us anything it's that someone knowledgeable on daemons should read that codex day 1 and tell Chase what are going to be the new popular HQs so he can order them up in bulk before GW goes out of stock.

Speaking of which did BGs order of Azrael and Sammael ever show up Chase? I know GWs site has had their availability from 7-8 weeks to 1-2 weeks pretty much since launch

Chase

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #113 on: February 27, 2013, 03:54:04 PM »
If the DA codex release taught us anything it's that someone knowledgeable on daemons should read that codex day 1 and tell Chase what are going to be the new popular HQs so he can order them up in bulk before GW goes out of stock.

Speaking of which did BGs order of Azrael and Sammael ever show up Chase? I know GWs site has had their availability from 7-8 weeks to 1-2 weeks pretty much since launch

Yes, this!!



I have 2x Sammael currently.  No Azreal.

They might be behind the counter still, so just ask whoever is there.
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
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Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #114 on: February 27, 2013, 04:03:06 PM »
On the updside, I kinda think the Azrael model is a little ugly.

Samael remains stupid awesome. 

keithb

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #115 on: February 27, 2013, 04:13:10 PM »
All of the greater demons will see play, if not in 40k, then in Fantasy.  Though I think the Bloodthirster and GUO are probably in the lead.

Beasts of nurgle got much, much better in fantasy.  fiends got worse. 

Chase

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #116 on: February 27, 2013, 04:28:09 PM »
Keeper of Secrets is a special order only thing now, unfortunately.  Otherwise we'll have all of that for as long as supplies last in Plainville on Saturday.

Ahh special order may reinforce the 2nd wave greater daemon theory.. ok thanks Chase, I'll be there 10:00AM with cash lol

Probably a good idea.  I'm basically positive I under-ordered this time around.

I can't express how much I hate that they keep us entirely blind until 1 week before we have to order... And at that point they give us the names and MSRP of the new stuff.  That's it.

What to know all the relevant info about the new stuff?  Sorry bro, better crack open the codex!
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
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keithb

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #117 on: February 27, 2013, 05:43:20 PM »
It doesn't matter what's good Chase! People will buy what models look best to them.  We don't need solid, balanced tournament rules, just great looking models.  That is what drives sales, that is what keeps the hobby alive. /sarcasm

MM3791

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #118 on: February 27, 2013, 05:51:57 PM »
Probably a good idea.  I'm basically positive I under-ordered this time around.

I can't express how much I hate that they keep us entirely blind until 1 week before we have to order... And at that point they give us the names and MSRP of the new stuff.  That's it.

What to know all the relevant info about the new stuff?  Sorry bro, better crack open the codex!

Lol yea I here ya, but GW has changed their policy to protect their business interests. You can almost always bet that all GW's new models will have good stats, since that's what their trying to sell.. either way Daemons will be an all around good release.

Benjamin

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Re: Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2013, 08:10:25 PM »
Oof, Fatenerfer.

I have two Keeper of Secrets models I'm willing to part with for store credit. I need to get my balance back up. :)