Chaos Demons very shortly, apparently.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Soo....what are we thinking of the new blood crushers, Bill?

Personally, blood crushers, and to a lesser extent soul grinders, would be my only reason to start this army. 

Soul grinders look to have disgusting stats, OP even, but bloodcrushers.....eh?

So we're going from t5, 2 wounds, 3+ save.....to t4, 3 wounds, no save to speak of save the demon save.  No longer eternal warrior.  Yeah, they're cavalry now, but that looks way, way more squishy.  They actually could be the worst unit in book, now.  (well, except for furies.  I don't know what furies are for, but at least they're cheap)

[andalucien]

IMHO, Bloodcrushers were nearly useless in 6th edition in the old book.   If a unit is expensive, has no gun, and isn't fast, it's tough times for that unit.   

I predict that bloodcrushers will now see a resurgence.    They won't be ubiquitous, but they have a place.  Sure, they're easier to kill than before.  But it's hard to overstate the difference in appliccability between regular infantry and cavalry.   Also, not HAVING to deep strike is a huge advantage.  Just my 2 cents.

[MM3791]

I think people forget that point for point, Bloodcrushers NEVER did more damage then Bloodletters. With that said, the new codex trades survivablity for speed.. they are fast! Also remember that the army is a horde army now, so shooting at 3 bloodcrushers won't stop the millions of other daemons from pouring into the battle line.

[Sir_Prometheus]

I wouldn't expect the to do more damage than bloodletters pt for pt....they're an elite unit you're paying a premium, mostly for the speed, and I thought, durability.

I'm really bothered by this.  They're solid metal monsters, damnit, they should have something better than 6+ armor (and demon invo). 

Anyone else have any thoughts on the bloodcrushers?  Because those really would be my main reason for building a khorne army. 

Some maths for you:

* It takes 12 bolter hits to kill a terminator (40 pts)
* It takes 6 bolter hits to kill a stock marine (let's say 15 pts)
* It takes 9 bolter hits to kill a marine bike (~22pts)
* It takes about 9 hits to kill a Bloodcrusher (45 pts)

[the_trooper]

Bloodcrushers seem really situational. I think they will be absurdly great at killing off marines but obviously be not great against terminators and their equivalents. I think looking at them in terms of killing potential might be where it's at.

Also something to keep in mind with your math, if the terminator was a nurgle terminator, the scale tips a bit and they aren't view as better than a th/ss terminator. That being said, if bloodcrushers die to lasguns, that's a sad day for Khorne.

I'll be using them for sure once my World Eaters get off the ground. Mostly just for a awesome factor.

[MM3791]

I wouldn't expect the to do more damage than bloodletters pt for pt....they're an elite unit you're paying a premium, mostly for the speed, and I thought, durability.

I'm really bothered by this.  They're solid metal monsters, damnit, they should have something better than 6+ armor (and demon invo). 

Anyone else have any thoughts on the bloodcrushers?  Because those really would be my main reason for building a khorne army. 

Some maths for you:

* It takes 12 bolter hits to kill a terminator (40 pts)
* It takes 6 bolter hits to kill a stock marine (let's say 15 pts)
* It takes 9 bolter hits to kill a marine bike (~22pts)
* It takes about 9 hits to kill a Bloodcrusher (45 pts)

Yea that's exactly your problem.. this isn't space marines. You are overlooking how bloodcrushers fit with the rest of the army. For 800 points you can field 80 bloodletters, with more then enough points for masses of bloodcrushers and even a khorne thone/thirster. If you play the army right then you should be putting so much pressure on your opponent that they won't know what to shoot. Mono khorne is very viable.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Yeah, I can get behind 8 pt blood letters, but it's not really what I want the bulk of the army to be.

I guess a big problem is this is going to be sorta vanity army for me.  I think khorne hound stats are great, too, but I can't see using the models.  I could probably make something cool out of pitbull models or something, though. 

[MM3791]

Well first its 10 pt bloodletters, and if you don't like the hound models you can always use the WoC hounds from fantasy. 

[Sir_Prometheus]

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/Warhammer_Monsters/SKIN-WOLVES.html

Skin wolves?  they're a little big, ain't they?

[Sir_Prometheus]

Probably just use SW wolves, paint them red.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440283a&prodId=prod1460179a

[the_trooper]

I think he was talking about the other ones...  The GW ones.

I plan on using the old metal Chaos Hounds I have had since... since my LatD days.

[Sir_Prometheus]

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440109a&prodId=prod1570038

Yeah, those are better.  Twice as many per $25, too.

[Bill]

I think looking at any daemon unit in a vacuum is a huge mistake. Bloodcrushers are amazing but they need proper support. With the new book; there is so much synergy it is absolutely insane. It's like a warhammer symphony (I know it's corny, but best way to put it.)

[the_trooper]

I was just commenting to Ian the other day that it's like GW decided to read a WM rulebook and then wrote C:CD. 

[Bill]

I was just commenting to Ian the other day that it's like GW decided to read a WM rulebook and then wrote C:CD. 

Yes exactly! Which is why I love the book so much. Units alone mostly look blah and most of the army is delicate but when things start working together it gets scary very quickly. Check out the Dark Star FB page to look at the first list I am play testing. Feel free to ask any questions you want.