[Abington MA] Battleground 40k Doubles Event - 2/16

[PhoenixFire]

Any word on scenarios?

[Chase]

I suppose I need to get those done, huh?

[Achillius]

I suppose I need to get those done, huh?

Keep them a surprise for the day.....

[Chase]

I suppose I need to get those done, huh?

Keep them a surprise for the day.....

Definitely

[the_trooper]

Back in my day when I would play at Danger Planet, they were pretty much revealed that day. It was pretty funny when people got put on the low gravity planet... There is something to be said for the surprise and and having to adapt last minute.

I mean, they give space marines two hearts and acid spit for a reason- to conquer any challenge!

[Sir_Prometheus]

Yeah, but stuff like that usually dramatically hurts or helps particular types of models.  Worse yet, most "fluffy/interesting" missions tend to help either deathstar or marine armies, which I don't think most peopl actually want. 

[the_trooper]

I don't think there is much evidence supporting either of those assumptions.

Fluffy and interesting missions lend toward more thematic list building and could arguably lead to things being taken that normally wouldn't which is great for variety.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Let me give you some evidence, then:

One popular thing is the "command counter" thing (from adepticon, I think?).  Give a squad the counter, that gives them X power (FNP, scoring, various other little goodies).  If you have a Tau army with nothing bigger than a FW squad, that's pretty crappy.  But if you're playing Draigo-wing, it's stupid awesome.

Low Gravity?  Well, that could mean a few different things, but sometimes it means extra movement for free.  That's usually pretty awesome if you're an assaulting army, and awful if you're a shooting army.

I remember planet strike had a stratagem that made these little walls that hindered movement.  You could remove them, or maybe it was just move through as normal, with grenades.  The problem with that?  THE ENITRE IMPERIUM HAS GRENADES.  Only a few Xenos units even have the option to get grenades, and they usually have to pay for them.  Seriously, like the humans super power in 40k is bringing grenades. 

"Fluffy and Interesting missions" will only lead to "thematic list building" if people know them ahead of time.  Revealed day of, you're really just helping to pick winners and losers by random chance, rather than skill.  I'm alright with revealing missions day of, but then they really HAVE to be as vanilla as possible. 

[the_trooper]

So bring an all comers list.

Revealing the missions before hand can lead to optimization. I've only heard of a couple people's lists so far for this event and it's pretty much people buckling down and thinking how best to support each other in any environment. I think the issue here is people's understanding of thematic lists vs. something just plain min/maxed.

Shooting armies backing assaulting armies seems to be a central plan of most of the lists I have seen / heard about. So even the issues in your anecdotal evidence would prove to be a non existent worry.

[Sir_Prometheus]

So bring an all comers list.

That really has nothing to do with anything that I was talking about. 

[keithb]

Matt, it's seemed from the get go, that this event might not be your cup of tea.  It is obviously this is going to be more of a fun event, and less of a serious competitive event.  If you can't appreciate that, I'd recommend not coming.

[the_trooper]

So bring an all comers list.

That really has nothing to do with anything that I was talking about.

Let me give you some evidence, then:

One popular thing is the "command counter" thing (from adepticon, I think?).  Give a squad the counter, that gives them X power (FNP, scoring, various other little goodies).  If you have a Tau army with nothing bigger than a FW squad, that's pretty crappy.  But if you're playing Draigo-wing, it's stupid awesome.

So don't spam firewarriors?

Low Gravity?  Well, that could mean a few different things, but sometimes it means extra movement for free.  That's usually pretty awesome if you're an assaulting army, and awful if you're a shooting army.

So have an assault element in the army?

I remember planet strike had a stratagem that made these little walls that hindered movement.  You could remove them, or maybe it was just move through as normal, with grenades.  The problem with that?  THE ENITRE IMPERIUM HAS GRENADES.  Only a few Xenos units even have the option to get grenades, and they usually have to pay for them.  Seriously, like the humans super power in 40k is bringing grenades. 

So buy grenades?

"Fluffy and Interesting missions" will only lead to "thematic list building" if people know them ahead of time.  Revealed day of, you're really just helping to pick winners and losers by random chance, rather than skill.  I'm alright with revealing missions day of, but then they really HAVE to be as vanilla as possible.

What?

I mean, isn't that what you are talking about?  Being annoyed you can take a min/maxed specialized list to win in a casual tournament?

[Sir_Prometheus]

I am saying primarily two things (and none of this has anything to do with my particular lists, thank-you-very-much):

1) A lot (but certainly not all) of "odd-ball" missions designs tend to egregiously favor certain armies in ways the mission designer presumably did not intend.  This has nothing to do with supposed balanced or un balanced lists, or taking a "take all-comers list".  Draigo-wing is actually a pretty good all-comers list, and that Command token plan I mentioned helps it a lot, like I said.

2) I agree, that revealing missions ahead of time can lead to optimization.  Of course, if those missions are meant to encourage balanced lists, that might be a good thing.  But if you have odd-ball missions, and reveal them the day of, you're really going to make the tournament more about whoever's list happened to be better adapted to the odd-ball mission. 

Matt, it's seemed from the get go, that this event might not be your cup of tea.  It is obviously this is going to be more of a fun event, and less of a serious competitive event.  If you can't appreciate that, I'd recommend not coming.

You know what?  I'm allowed to raise objections I think are pretinent without people saying "Matt, this isn't the event for you." I'd be saying all the same things even if I wasn't planning on coming. 

I really liked your missions, btw, Keith. 

So don't spam firewarriors?

Missed the point.  Wasn't about FW, it was about Draigo-wing and other deathstars.

So have an assault element in the army?

Some armies don't.  SOme people don't want to.  Shouldn't be mandatory.  Etc.

So buy grenades?

Do you even read what you're quoting?  Entire IMperium has it for free.  Lots of armies/units can't even buy grenades at all. 

[the_trooper]

I am saying primarily two things (and none of this has anything to do with my particular lists, thank-you-very-much):

1) A lot (but certainly not all) of "odd-ball" missions designs tend to egregiously favor certain armies in ways the mission designer presumably did not intend.  This has nothing to do with supposed balanced or un balanced lists, or taking a "take all-comers list".  Draigo-wing is actually a pretty good all-comers list, and that Command token plan I mentioned helps it a lot, like I said.

So take Draigo and stop bringing up moot points?

2) I agree, that revealing missions ahead of time can lead to optimization.  Of course, if those missions are meant to encourage balanced lists, that might be a good thing.  But if you have odd-ball missions, and reveal them the day of, you're really going to make the tournament more about whoever's list happened to be better adapted to the odd-ball mission. 

What?

Matt, it's seemed from the get go, that this event might not be your cup of tea.  It is obviously this is going to be more of a fun event, and less of a serious competitive event.  If you can't appreciate that, I'd recommend not coming.

You know what?  I'm allowed to raise objections I think are pretinent without people saying "Matt, this isn't the event for you." I'd be saying all the same things even if I wasn't planning on coming. 

I really liked your missions, btw, Keith. 

Keith is a smart man.

So don't spam firewarriors?

Missed the point.  Wasn't about FW, it was about Draigo-wing and other deathstars.

So bring your Draigowing.

So have an assault element in the army?

Some armies don't.  SOme people don't want to.  Shouldn't be mandatory.  Etc.

It's 6th edition 40k, I thought we were joking when we talked about assaulting. If we aren't I think we should make the tournament just outright skip the assault phase as some people don't like it and it could speed up games.

So buy grenades?

Do you even read what you're quoting?  Entire IMperium has it for free.  Lots of armies/units can't even buy grenades at all.

Nothing is free, it's worked into their prices. Imperium has it for free? Do you even read all the codecies?

[King of the Elves]

Not this again!!!!  Don't like it, don't come. Plain and simple. Please stop complaining about everything. I go to a high school and they don't have this much drama.