New FAQs are out

[Sir_Prometheus]

What were are really talking about is the not uncommon scenarios where a marine squad with bolters and a heavy bolter (or anything else longer ranged) fires on a unit and only part of the unit is within 24".  Can the bolter wounds be allocated to just that part of the unit, or all of them?  It's not clear from this FAQ. 

The simpler answer that leads to less paperwork is to say that yes the bolters can be applied to everything.  But then, the previous answer was "if you had range to the unit, you had range, period" and that was the simplest of all. 

Nope.  All it says is if they can take wounds.  If the unit is spread out and there are models fartehr then 24 inches if you have a long range wep in sqaud then bolters can kill targets farther then 24....

Again, that's possibly what they intended, but it's not really what it says.  It's actually really bad grammar (or at least poor logic).

[Grimwulfe]

Can the bolter wounds be allocated to just that part of the unit, or all of them?  It's not clear from this FAQ

Actually I disagree it is very clear in this regard.  Andalucian already posted this and you agreed to it already.

Actually I don't think it's as confusing as you are fearing... here's the actual quote:

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.

The key phrase is "any of the shooting models". You only check whether a given targe model is within range of ANY firing model.  If it is, then it can have wounds allocated to it.  No need to track WHICH wounds came from WHICH firing model.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Can the bolter wounds be allocated to just that part of the unit, or all of them?  It's not clear from this FAQ

Actually I disagree it is very clear in this regard.  Andalucian already posted this and you agreed to it already.

I did not. 

If wounds can't be applied to a model that was out of range of ANY of the firing unit's (not models's really, why are they making this harder than it has to be?) weapons, does that mean that wounds can be applied to a model if SOME of the weapons could reach that model, even beyond the number of wounds inflicted by that particular weapon?

It doesn't, really.  That's probably what they meant (maybe), but it's not what they wrote.

Now, what you could do, is argue that since the ONLY thing being specifically forbade here is that you can't allocate wounds if NONE of the unit's (or possibly it's by model, see, that's problematic too) weapons reach the model, is say it defaults to what it says in the BRB, which is essentially "if the firing model was in range of any part of the unit, it can kill any model it has LOS to", which would mean that yeah, the shorter range wounds can be allocated out to the range of the longer range weapon. 

That wound be my ruling, if I had to.  But it's totally unclear.  It's not even really clear what they meant.  You have to go through several Logic (as in the college class) steps just to get there.  I'd really prefer they just used unambiguous language to start with.  At least the original rule was clear. 

[Grimwulfe]

Thats where your wrong bud.  The FAQ specifically is talking of wounds

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)

The bold parts explain how the answer isbeing derived.  So for initial shooting purposes for a model to SHOOT yes they have to be in range.  HOWEVER wounds can be allocated to models as long as the model is in range for the WOUND POOL.  So if the half of the unit is out of range of the bolters in normal cases they couldnt die per the FAQ.  BUT if you add in a long range weapon that other half of the unit is then added to the WOUND POOL and henceforth overkill wounds from the bolters can indeed kill lobger range targets.

[PhoenixFire]

Thats where your wrong bud.  The FAQ specifically is talking of wounds

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)

The bold parts explain how the answer isbeing derived.  So for initial shooting purposes for a model to SHOOT yes they have to be in range.  HOWEVER wounds can be allocated to models as long as the model is in range for the WOUND POOL.  So if the half of the unit is out of range of the bolters in normal cases they couldnt die per the FAQ.  BUT if you add in a long range weapon that other half of the unit is then added to the WOUND POOL and henceforth overkill wounds from the bolters can indeed kill lobger range targets.

I think we have a winner.

The word ANY of the shooting models when to hit rolls were made does it for me.

A good arguement to add a heavy bolter or something to your squads

[Sir_Prometheus]

Thats where your wrong bud.  The FAQ specifically is talking of wounds

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)

The bold parts explain how the answer isbeing derived.  So for initial shooting purposes for a model to SHOOT yes they have to be in range.  HOWEVER wounds can be allocated to models as long as the model is in range for the WOUND POOL.  So if the half of the unit is out of range of the bolters in normal cases they couldnt die per the FAQ.  BUT if you add in a long range weapon that other half of the unit is then added to the WOUND POOL and henceforth overkill wounds from the bolters can indeed kill lobger range targets.

Yes, I understand we're talking about allocated wounds.  Yes, I understand what you are saying.  No, that doesn't change any of my answers (which mostly, I think has us in the same place, but through a complicated set of steps, and I don't think it's clear)

If you want to be super, SUPER technical about it, I think a heavy bolter would be a different Wound Pool than a bolter, because it's AP 4.  Or maybe that's only true if some of the targets have 4+ save.  So do we have to break down each wound pool by the weapon range to?

Anyway, see what I mean?  Maybe you don't.  But yes, I see what you're saying and not i don't think it's clear, even though in the end i come to the same conclusion (sorta). 

[Sir_Prometheus]

I think we have a winner.

The word ANY of the shooting models when to hit rolls were made does it for me.

Again, just because if NOT ANY (none) = NO, it does not mean that ANY (some) = YES.

I'm trying to be as clear as possible. 

[Bill]

Can we play warhammer now?

[Grimwulfe]

No warhammer for you 1 year!

[BrianP]

Can we play warhammer now?

I think we're only allowed to play if some of our models are on the same table, assuming any of the models are not on a different table. 

  

[Grimwulfe]

What about apoc games?

[Benjamin]

I was just coming to grips with what I didn't understand in 6th Edition, and now this FAQ'ing shit.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Oh, it almost becomes less clear every time GW opens its mouth, it's great.

[Grand Master Steve]

did they miss Ravenwing Attack Squad? Its base point cost is 80 for three bikers, 3 more is 81 if i do my math right. Is any one else getting that? Doesnt make sence to have the add on be a point higher than the basic cost of 3

[Sir_Prometheus]

Yeah, I noticed that.  I dunno, would you rather each extra biker cost  26.66 pts?  The basic squad cost 81?  *shrug*