Orks vs Grey Knights

[Benjamin]

There was a game on Thursday of Orks vs Grey Knights. Grey Knights smoked the Orks pretty hard. Prescience & Psycannons, ouch.

I was trying to think what if anything Orks can muster against Grey Knights, because I'd like to offer some advice...

The best I could come up with is for Orks to take multiple smaller units, increasing the number of targets and the likelihood they make it across the board.

[PhoenixFire]

There was a game on Thursday of Orks vs Grey Knights. Grey Knights smoked the Orcs pretty hard. Prescience & Psycannons, ouch.

I was trying to think what if anything Orks can muster against Grey Knights, because I'd like to offer some advice...

The best I could come up with is for Orks to take multiple smaller units, increasing the number of targets and the likelihood they make it across the board.

They've got numbers on their side, grey knights are an elite army and small in numbers while Orcs are legion.

Orcs have more bodies to spread around in objective games
AV 14 and deff rollas are still a threat, GKs can really only touch AV 14 by rending and hoping for a 3+ with a psycannon
Lootas, not to mention lootas and overwatch

Those are just my observations from playing GK against orcs, i don't know enough about the orc codex side of the house to peak intelligently

And you absolutely right about smaller units Ben, when i played GK i was always bummed about having to prioratize fire

I'n a 6 edition world where more bodies on the board are better, I'd take orcs.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Grey Knights have always been pretty good against orks, even back when they were Daemonhunters.  It's just that stormbolters are a pretty good way to shoot up tons of orks. After the new codex came out, psybolters and lots of purifier fire made it worse.  (GKSS became worse against them in CC, because orks don't care about AP3, but that isn't what matters)

Yeah, battle wagons are good, but I'm just going to respond to those by deep striking and trying to get side armor.  And I'll remind you that a psycannon is better than a lascannon at penetrating AV14. 

[Benjamin]

Draigo and the Paladin squad killed something like 21 orks in one round of shooting, so a 30-strong squad was suddenly broken and fleeing. It was mind-boggling.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Hrrm.  Draigo and paladins should literally be the worst at fighting orks, particularly in CC.  You did something wrong.  More power claws, maybe?

Or were you expecting 30 regular boyz (about 180 pts, right?) to kill like 600 (or a 1000) pts of paladins and badass HQ?  Cuz that wouldn't exactly be right if that worked. 

[GossWeapon]

The Kustom Force field.  It is so sick, even with new cover rules.  Also, the new rtillery rules makes kannonz pretty sick.  I played GK/necrons at the (mini)invitational and lost last round due to those t7 orks.  Other than that just moar dakka, moar smoosh smoosh.

[Bill]

Moar meganobz, Gahz, and long range Dakka can usually do it. Focus fire Dakka one unit of power armour guys at a time, throw meganobz at paladins with gahzy and lol.

[Benjamin]

The Kustom Force field.

Nope. Prescience.

[Benjamin]

Hrrm.  Draigo and paladins should literally be the worst at fighting orks, particularly in CC.  You did something wrong.  More power claws, maybe?

Or were you expecting 30 regular boyz (about 180 pts, right?) to kill like 600 (or a 1000) pts of paladins and badass HQ?  Cuz that wouldn't exactly be right if that worked.

The player did manage to get a Boyz squad and some Nobz from a Nob squad into Close Combat, but those Paladins are still rocking a 2+ save. I think Power Klaws killed maybe two Paladins?

Point for point, 3 Boyz squads at 540 points should in theory provide some sort of challenge to a 600 point squad, not just get routed off the board.

[Bill]

Boyz are never going to stand up against paladins, it just isn't going to happen. The only match in close combat is really mega nobz. Oddly enough in this hoarde focused edition, to me it feels that ork boyz have just become lack luster. Luckily however there are many other ways for Orks to be amazing. The following is a list I played a few times and had a lot of luck with. I have Ghaz and the nobz in a truck to reserve off the board and zoom up 25" on turn 1. I run the boyz up behind it and surround all the bad angles for the impending ramshackle. Pop ghaz's 2++ and obviously try to avoid as much fire as possible. This includes pushing hard in the same turn with your burna boyz and focus fire lootas and dakka jets and the unit you aren't gonna burn and mega nob to death get focused down. I would try to fit in a aegis with comms link to make sure you can really focus fire on that turn 2. I only played this list against the infamous 27 flamer/ 27 screamer and a foot GK list with pallys but it went very well in both occasions.

1850 Pts - Codex: Orks Roster

HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka (1#, 225 pts)
   1 Ghazghkull Thraka, 225 pts ( Warlord)

HQ: Weirdboy (1#, 85 pts)
   1 Weirdboy, 85 pts (Warphead)

Elite: Lootas (10#, 150 pts)
   10 Lootas, 150 pts

Elite: Lootas (10#, 150 pts)
   10 Lootas, 150 pts

Elite: Burna Boyz (12#, 180 pts)
   12 Burna Boyz, 180 pts

Troops: Meganobz (6#, 250 pts)
   5 Meganobz, 250 pts (Count as Troop Troops; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x2)
      1 Trukk (Red Paint Job)

Troops: Gretchin (11#, 40 pts)
   10 Gretchin, 40 pts
      1 Runtherd

Troops: Boyz (20#, 155 pts)
   19 Boyz, 155 pts
      1 Boyz Nob (Power Klaw)

Troops: Boyz (30#, 230 pts)
   29 Boyz, 230 pts (Shootas; Big Shoota x3)
      1 Boyz Nob (Power Klaw)

Fast Attack: Dakkajet (1#, 130 pts)
   1 Dakkajet, 130 pts (Fighta Ace; TL Supa Shoota)

Fast Attack: Dakkajet (1#, 130 pts)
   1 Dakkajet, 130 pts (Fighta Ace; TL Supa Shoota)

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (1#, 125 pts)
   1 Battlewagon, 125 pts (Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job; Big Shoota x2)


Total Roster Cost: 1850

[Sir_Prometheus]

Equal points of boys should CREAM paladins--the paladins have a few, high quality attacks, not what you want against orks. But, there's a density problem here: I don't believe it's possible to get anywhere near 600 pts of orks hitting the pallies at once.

I think this is why most people have moved to shooting boyz, you can light them up with dakka and still hit hard in cc. That should let you apply force better.

And yeah, ghaz will kill a lot paladins easily, and in 6th, he beats out Draigo in a challenge (not that you want to do that, you want him killing the squad).

[MM3791]

Equal points of boys should CREAM paladins--the paladins have a few, high quality attacks, not what you want against orks. But, there's a density problem here: I don't believe it's possible to get anywhere near 600 pts of orks hitting the pallies at once.

"We lure them into this narrow corrider where numbers counts for nothing" Lol

But seriously can't they just drown them in green?

[Grimwulfe]

Unless they are purifiers yes.  Purifiers will throw a monkey wrench into the sea of green all day!

Crowes personal best in 1 round of HTH 27 Orks!!

[Sir_Prometheus]

Equal points of boys should CREAM paladins--the paladins have a few, high quality attacks, not what you want against orks. But, there's a density problem here: I don't believe it's possible to get anywhere near 600 pts of orks hitting the pallies at once.

"We lure them into this narrow corrider where numbers counts for nothing" Lol

But seriously can't they just drown them in green?

Well, that's exactly what I'm saying.  Maybe 90 ork boyz should statistically beat Draigo and 5 paladins.   (dunno, haven't mathhammered it) But how many of those 90 Orks could realitically get to within 2" of a model in btb that first turn?  Not half, I bet, and that's NOT accounting for terrain.  (you have to assume all three units are coming from one side, not that were all equidistantly spread around the paladins. 

[Junker]

I was the GK player and the unit I was fielding was almost 1000 pts. It was Draigo, 10 paladins (4 psychannons, warding stave and banner) and coteaz. I also had a 5 man paladin squad with 2 psychannons and a rifleman.  It wasnt a very good list but his only AP2 weapons were power claws. Coteaz had the ignore cover and prescience powers. What really helped me was that I was able to fight him piecemeal for the first few turns. He had 2 units of slugga boys and one unit of shoota boys, nobs in a truck, a boyz truck with a warboss (that he kept in reserve), some kannons and coptas that were in reserve.

His boys were split up around some LOS blocking terrain in the middle. I refused flanked on the shoota boy side away from the truck. Turn 1 he pushed everything forward. I moved up and blew away 20 something shoota boys and they ran. I blew up the truck and his nobs were on foot. Turn 2 I killed the closest slugga squad and his nobs killed my dread. Turn 3 I killed his other slugga squad. Turn 4, he assaulted me with one truck boy squad, his nob squad and the coptas. I overwatched the nobs but did nothing. As he was charging through terrain, all his boys and nobs were I1. His 5 nobs had to face something like 15 prescienced force weapon attacks before he swung. They died to a man. His warboss flubbed his attacks and died to a hammer blow. Two more hammer dudes laid into the boyz squad and Draigo smashed the other warboss. Coteaz banged up one copta. He lost combat by a lot and broke.

That was about it.