Author Topic: New Dark Angels Thread  (Read 7859 times)

Tsilber

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #105 on: January 17, 2013, 09:23:14 PM »
Flyer Slack,

Looking at the Flyer, i do not think the Neph is so bad.

Avenger mega bolter STR6 ap- , heavy 5
Twin linked Heavey bolter , heavy 3
6 Missiles, Str 6

The big thing is the strafing run rule. BS5 without coming out of zoom mode. While remaining a flyer.

DA libbies get Divination so throw prescience on it if you can when it shoots at other flyers. It should ding a demon up quite a bit, with a little luck, kill it or ground it. Also good positioning to get a rare armor shot at another flyer.

Lets face it, Chaos flyer got a lot deadlier. But at the same time, you wont see it flying off the board on turn 3 or 4 anymore as its gun is now turret. Flying rule will dictate it will have to turn around sooner of later if it wants to keep pounding the ground. Rare armor is 10 is it not?  Necron flyer, DA flyer all armor 11. Not to bad of odds shooting one of those down.

As for Vendettas or Storm Ravens, well let them drive around and do their thing i guess, i usually ignore em anyway (unless it parks itself close to some melta guns, and i roll two 6's, sorry Jared). Ally space marine and get a storm talon, or blood angels and take a storm raven of your own if you are truly concerned.

I understand it could have been better but DA flyers are great ground and pound, and par/subpar with other flyers.
Just my 2 cents.

Now what i am upset about, is where is our 2wound Deathwing? 54 point deathwing knights with 2 wounds should of happened. No.. we get hammer of wrath.. wow thanks easter bunny, 5 str4 hits. Yay.


Sir_Prometheus

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #106 on: January 17, 2013, 10:28:06 PM »
Actually, it's the opposite, it only gets strafing run while doing a "hover strike", in hover mode and immobile.  In other words, easy to kill as hell. 

Yeah, it's basically 7 str6 shots a turn.  For a 180 pts.

I think you'd usually rather have 2 GK psybacks, by a long shot.

Mannahnin

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #107 on: January 18, 2013, 12:54:55 AM »
The Neph will be playable if they realize that Missile Lock wasn't the error- making the missiles NOT listed as Blast is the error.  If they fix those two things, it'll be usable.

Sir_Prometheus

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #108 on: January 18, 2013, 02:02:45 AM »
Oh, yeah, and what kind of oxymoronic logic is it to have "hover strike" invoke "strafing run", a word that inherently means a fast fly-by shooting? 

I have no idea what this "missile lock" errata was about exactly, as I've only read the digital version at length, and that apparently had it removed already.  What was "missile lock" supposed to do?  That's not a rule from the BRB, is it?

Tsilber

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #109 on: January 18, 2013, 07:51:57 AM »
Actually, it's the opposite, it only gets strafing run while doing a "hover strike", in hover mode and immobile.  In other words, easy to kill as hell. 

Yeah, it's basically 7 str6 shots a turn.  For a 180 pts.

I think you'd usually rather have 2 GK psybacks, by a long shot.

I think your getting Strafing run and Hover strike confused.  They are 2 separate abilities. Did they FAQ strafing run? I dont see anywhere where it says you need to be in Hover mode in order to use strafing run.

Strafing run page 42, says while shooting at X,X,X targets without flyer rule or skimmer. Treat BS 1 higher.

Now the hover strike special rule, gives you the option to go into hover mode which then makes the vehicle a skimmer and gains the strafing run special rule.

Strafing run, and Hover Strike are 2 different special abilities.

So BS 5 shooting at ground targets, 5x str6, 2x str6 missiles, 3x str5 twin linked. (while still a flyer), is not to shabby.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 08:13:25 AM by Tsilber »

Mannahnin

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #110 on: January 18, 2013, 08:30:35 AM »
Matt- I agree the names are unintuitive for the two rules, but I believe Hover Strike granting Strafing Run is how the Storm Talon works, so they went with the same mechanic for the similar Dark Talon.  Todd's right that the Nephilim doesn't have Hover Strike- it's just got straight Strafing Run all the time.   Missile Lock is (IIRC) the same rule the DE bomber has- its scattering weapons only scatter 1d6-BS; so they're very accurate.  They errata'd the Neph to remove it as a special rule evidently because as-printed, the Neph currently doesn't have any Blast weapons. 


Sir_Prometheus

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #111 on: January 18, 2013, 11:16:51 AM »
I think your getting Strafing run and Hover strike confused.  They are 2 separate abilities. Did they FAQ strafing run? I dont see anywhere where it says you need to be in Hover mode in order to use strafing run.

No, what I was confused about is that I didn't realize the nephilim had straffing run separate from hover strike (it's the darktalon that has hover strike), sorry. 

That does make it a bit better, but still no where near worth 180 pts.  Str6 (or higher) shots are too easy to come by against ground targets, and they won't do much against the Flyers you really need to kill (vendettas, helldrakes, maybe Stormravens).  I think Blacksword missiles really needed to be Str 7 , I almost feel like they made them str 6 and and 36" out of some misplaced need for variety in statlines (making them seperate from missile pods, autocannons, flakk missiles, etc). I think if they had two lascannons instead of 1 twinlinked cannon that might also do it. 

Even then, a vendetta would be laughing at it pretty hard.  As it is, it's having trouble breathing. 

Tsilber

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #112 on: January 18, 2013, 11:59:45 AM »
I think your getting Strafing run and Hover strike confused.  They are 2 separate abilities. Did they FAQ strafing run? I dont see anywhere where it says you need to be in Hover mode in order to use strafing run.

No, what I was confused about is that I didn't realize the nephilim had straffing run separate from hover strike (it's the darktalon that has hover strike), sorry. 

That does make it a bit better, but still no where near worth 180 pts.  Str6 (or higher) shots are too easy to come by against ground targets, and they won't do much against the Flyers you really need to kill (vendettas, helldrakes, maybe Stormravens).  I think Blacksword missiles really needed to be Str 7 , I almost feel like they made them str 6 and and 36" out of some misplaced need for variety in statlines (making them seperate from missile pods, autocannons, flakk missiles, etc). I think if they had two lascannons instead of 1 twinlinked cannon that might also do it. 

Even then, a vendetta would be laughing at it pretty hard.  As it is, it's having trouble breathing.

no sweat on the mix of rules, i wanted to make sure i didnt miss an FAq or something.

Im still looking at this flyer as anti infantry, not really comparing it to other flyers. Vendetta and stormravens firing at infantry can only kill 4 models (twin las, twin melta, 2 missile), how I see most people set it up. Now these have the freedom of really doing damage to vehicles if it likes.

Neph fighter, can kill 10 models max. Not really effective against flyers like vendettas or stormravens. Maybe a few glancing hits. But while firing at ground targets hitting on 2's. (also when used in combinations with other dark angels shooting) 7 of the neph shots will be able to instant kill, palis or wraiths, or other toughness 4 multi wound models.

As for the helldrake, as i mentioned above. With the new turret baleflamer, it will probably be on the board full time. Flying rules, dictates sooner or later you can get rare armor shots on it.

I guess cause i play dark eldar i see the flyer differently. When i run a razor wing i run 4 str 7 missiles, splinter cannon and 2 disintegration cannons. full anti infantry, sometimes ill shoot the missiles at a tank, but then my other weapons are wasted.  But it can never hurt a flyer or a vendetta or stormraven, and only a helldrake from the back. And time and time again it still performs well during games.

Perhaps the price is high, 2 twin linked las would of been awesome. Believe me though after i play test, if it sucks, i'll be the first to admit my opinion of it was wrong.

I am only throwing out suggestions of opinion mate, not saying anyone is wrong or right. I just think its worth trying out. Based on the amount of shots, Str, BS, and combos with other Dark angels goodies.

NOW 54 point Deathwing Knights with 2 wounds? I was hoping to see multi wound Termies. comments?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 12:02:26 PM by Tsilber »

Sir_Prometheus

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #113 on: January 18, 2013, 02:04:49 PM »
If I wanted to do an anti-infantry Stormraven (which I usually don't because I have other options for that) I would give it Hurricane bolters, TL AC, and psybolts. (not giving up the TL multi-melta, no way no how).  That's expensive at 255, but it's also doing a LOT more damage, and is tougher. 

12 Str 5 shots, 4 str 7, 1 str 8, all of that twinlinked, plus mind strike missiles. 

Just saying.  I actually think the SR is too expensive, too (certainly when used just to dogfight) and it's got a lot more output. 

Grand Master Steve

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #114 on: January 19, 2013, 04:53:31 PM »
If i had to take a D.A Flyer, that Stasis bomb seems to have promiss. Ruin some one's day by dropping it, make them even weaker by pegging them with the Ravenwing grenade launcher and Deathwing step in and break some one's face in. I think it has the potential to change the table but that point cost is a bit steep for a one time use bomb if you ask me.

Mike_k

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #115 on: January 20, 2013, 12:29:03 PM »
For the cost I can not envision a scenario or reason to take those fliers when I can take IG allies with Azael joining a blob giving them a 4++ and then taking a 60 point cheaper vendetta. Fliers should always firstly be an anti flier unit and maybe doubling as a mediocre anti infantry unit. It seems like these fliers are designed to maybe fight ork fliers at best and then get dominated by everything else.

With the ability to take an ADL or bastion and flakk on my troops etc I dont see a need to overpay for these fliers when I get more suitable anti air in the rest of my army. Its unfortunate because I actually love the models.
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PhoenixFire

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #116 on: January 20, 2013, 01:05:53 PM »
For the cost I can not envision a scenario or reason to take those fliers when I can take IG allies with Azael joining a blob giving them a 4++ and then taking a 60 point cheaper vendetta. Fliers should always firstly be an anti flier unit and maybe doubling as a mediocre anti infantry unit. It seems like these fliers are designed to maybe fight ork fliers at best and then get dominated by everything else.

With the ability to take an ADL or bastion and flakk on my troops etc I dont see a need to overpay for these fliers when I get more suitable anti air in the rest of my army. Its unfortunate because I actually love the models.

I'm with you on the Azrael blob (cant wait to try it)

I've been staying away from Vendettas lately because they just don't do much for me. less people taking flyers and armor which means those TL Lascannon shots that probably won't show up until turn 3 or 4 don't earn their points back.

I'm planning on taking a Dev squad with Flakk since all the other Heavy options in the DA book are rubbish IMO.

Land Raiders? no thanks

Vengeance? expensive piece of paper that is going to blow itself up with Gets hot! rolls

Predator? no

Whirlwind? Maybe, cheap points and i like Pie... plates

Vindicator? a poor mans Leman Russ Demolisher but it's got potential in certain situations

Achillius

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #117 on: January 20, 2013, 02:02:20 PM »
For the cost I can not envision a scenario or reason to take those fliers when I can take IG allies with Azael joining a blob giving them a 4++ and then taking a 60 point cheaper vendetta. Fliers should always firstly be an anti flier unit and maybe doubling as a mediocre anti infantry unit. It seems like these fliers are designed to maybe fight ork fliers at best and then get dominated by everything else.

With the ability to take an ADL or bastion and flakk on my troops etc I dont see a need to overpay for these fliers when I get more suitable anti air in the rest of my army. Its unfortunate because I actually love the models.

I'll play one just because they look cool, the rest will take care of itself ;)
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Grand Master Steve

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #118 on: January 20, 2013, 08:10:16 PM »
For the cost I can not envision a scenario or reason to take those fliers when I can take IG allies with Azael joining a blob giving them a 4++ and then taking a 60 point cheaper vendetta. Fliers should always firstly be an anti flier unit and maybe doubling as a mediocre anti infantry unit. It seems like these fliers are designed to maybe fight ork fliers at best and then get dominated by everything else.

With the ability to take an ADL or bastion and flakk on my troops etc I dont see a need to overpay for these fliers when I get more suitable anti air in the rest of my army. Its unfortunate because I actually love the models.

I'm with you on the Azrael blob (cant wait to try it)

I've been staying away from Vendettas lately because they just don't do much for me. less people taking flyers and armor which means those TL Lascannon shots that probably won't show up until turn 3 or 4 don't earn their points back.

I'm planning on taking a Dev squad with Flakk since all the other Heavy options in the DA book are rubbish IMO.

Land Raiders? no thanks

Vengeance? expensive piece of paper that is going to blow itself up with Gets hot! rolls

Predator? no

Whirlwind? Maybe, cheap points and i like Pie... plates

Vindicator? a poor mans Leman Russ Demolisher but it's got potential in certain situations

I totaly agree there. 4 Flakk missle launchers? Yes please! When I do it sometime down the road im going to jazz it up by making them robbed marines. I always think that the Devs are the lowest inner circle members and should have robes.  This is a far superior answer than those over priced hunks of junk they call fliers to deal with enemy fliers. So many better options with an alies choice for fliers.

PhoenixFire

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Re: New Dark Angels Thread
« Reply #119 on: January 20, 2013, 10:31:07 PM »

I totaly agree there. 4 Flakk missle launchers? Yes please! When I do it sometime down the road im going to jazz it up by making them robbed marines. I always think that the Devs are the lowest inner circle members and should have robes.  This is a far superior answer than those over priced hunks of junk they call fliers to deal with enemy fliers. So many better options with an alies choice for fliers.

Funny you said that, I've got a pile of Devastator and DA Vet sprues in front of me making some up now. The pics in the codex of hooded space monks with missile launchers are pretty awesome.