New Dark Angels Thread

[Erich]

Question about the RW grenade launchers, please pardon if this has been asked.

If a unit of RW with a grenade launcher fires at a target and drops that targets toughness, are the rest of the bikers in his unit firing against this new toughness?

In other words, is the unit able to set itself up with the grenade launcher, or set up other units?

[PhoenixFire]

Question about the RW grenade launchers, please pardon if this has been asked.

If a unit of RW with a grenade launcher fires at a target and drops that targets toughness, are the rest of the bikers in his unit firing against this new toughness?

In other words, is the unit able to set itself up with the grenade launcher, or set up other units?

since all shooting is simultaneous i would imagine you use their toughness value at the start of the shooting phase. A good argument for taking 2 separate Black Knight squads and hitting it with rad first then the other one hits it with stasis if you've got a unit ready to assault

[Sir_Prometheus]

I would imagine, no, it wouldn't count for that squads shooting, but without looking at the rad rule itself I can't be sure.  At least if they follow precedent.  It wouldn't be the first time for GW to reverse themselves. 

[Sir_Prometheus]

Anyone else notice that just about any IC can buy an "infravisor" for a lousy 5 pts, which gives them infravision?  That's transferable to the unit, btw. 

[Erich]

since all shooting is simultaneous i would imagine you use their toughness value at the start of the shooting phase.

Shooting is simultaneous but you roll to hit, score those hits, THEN roll to wound. Since the unit was "hit" by the grenade wouldn't the Toughness get dropped before the wound roll?

[Sir_Prometheus]

Maybe.  I'd need to see the exact text of the rule, which I don't have access to atm.

Anyone else notice that DW command are an upgrade of regular Deathwing, not deathwing knights?  (no mace of absoloution, hammer of wrath, etc)  By comparison, Ravening command (all 3 models) are an upgrade of the RW black knights. 

[PhoenixFire]

since all shooting is simultaneous i would imagine you use their toughness value at the start of the shooting phase.

Shooting is simultaneous but you roll to hit, score those hits, THEN roll to wound. Since the unit was "hit" by the grenade wouldn't the Toughness get dropped before the wound roll?

Well the Rad grenade has a Str value attached to it (Str 3) meaning you have to roll to wound so i would argue the rad effect doesn't happen until you roll to wound

the other issue this brings up is at Str 3 it's not going to be very effective against MCs. Even Space Marines you are going to need to get a least one 5 on the dice to tag the unit with Rad

[Sir_Prometheus]

I dunno, does it say "units hit by", "when hit by", or "when wounded by"?  These would all be slightly different.

And I'd think that the str 3 isn't the point.....it's to debuff it for the next salvo. 

[Sir_Prometheus]

I feel like you guys aren't listening.  It depends, a lot, on the exact wording of the text. 

[PhoenixFire]

I dunno, does it say "units hit by", "when hit by", or "when wounded by"?  These would all be slightly different.

And I'd think that the str 3 isn't the point.....it's to debuff it for the next salvo.

Your on to something,


Rad Shell 12" Str 3 Ap - Assault 1, Blast, Rad Charge

which to me says the Rad doesn't take effect unless there's a wound

Rad Charge: Every model in a unit HIT by one or more rad shells suffers a -1 penalty to their toughness untill the end of the turn (this can affect the victims' instant death threshold)

this however makes it pretty clear cut that all you need to do is HIT. Of course this doesn't really clear up the initial question of does the -1 toughness count for that initial salvo or just subsequent salvos that turn?

It still makes sense to me that the firing unit wouldn't benefit from the -1 toughness as it is all simultaneous but it needs an FAQ for sure

[Tsilber]

Shooting is simultaneous but you roll to hit, score those hits, THEN roll to wound. Since the unit was "hit" by the grenade wouldn't the Toughness get dropped before the wound roll?

this is correct, have at it.

Rad says when "hit"

So you are hit, toughness lowered. Then roll to wound.

 Paladins, Wraiths now instant killed by the squads plasmas fire.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Rad Charge: Every model in a unit HIT by one or more rad shells suffers a -1 penalty to their toughness untill the end of the turn (this can affect the victims' instant death threshold)

OK, so yeah, the unit is hit, the toughness is lowered, and then you roll to wound, in that order, so yes it does affect the shooting from that squad. 

Notably, since the rest of the squad is blasting Str7 plasma, that means you'll be insta-killing lots of things, like paladins, you wouldn't have been previously. 

[PhoenixFire]

Notably, since the rest of the squad is blasting Str7 plasma, that means you'll be insta-killing lots of things, like paladins, you wouldn't have been previously.

another argument for this being a "must take" for this army. Totally worth 126 points to me, it will likely be a high value target and therefore might be smart to take additional bikes in that unit or more then one unit of them.

It should be noted that a Ravenwing Command Squad has them as well and basically the same stats as a Black Knight for 120 points. However since you need an HQ on a bike to unlock them and can only have 1 per army it's more for a Sammael type army and not really a mixed army

[Grand Master Steve]

They are more i think for Chaplains on bikes or even Librarians. Im trying to figure out how to min max a Deathwing Army myself. I sold all my D.A stuff and old Ravenwing to have funds and room for new stuff

[Achillius]

Notably, since the rest of the squad is blasting Str7 plasma, that means you'll be insta-killing lots of things, like paladins, you wouldn't have been previously.

another argument for this being a "must take" for this army. Totally worth 126 points to me, it will likely be a high value target and therefore might be smart to take additional bikes in that unit or more then one unit of them.

I think that 6 is a minimum Black Knights sqd, take rad and stasis shots to make a mess of any unit, especially if GM Azzy then charges in with his blob squard LOL.

Ahh we'll see.

Right now I'm thinking of a techMarine with my Dev squad, bolster some defences, maybe take a powerfield. we'll see.