Author Topic: Feedback on missions?  (Read 5521 times)

andalucien

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2013, 05:46:52 PM »
I think a little extra clarification would help if we go that route...

Hmm, is it possible to have opposing sides on the 2 "floors" of a bastion?    I don't recall... if so, you would have a quandary figuring out who owned it.  What if an enemy is in B2B with the bastion but you've still got a unit on the roof?

And for Aegis lines... who "controls" an aegis line?  Do you control it if you have anyone in b2b with any part of the line, but your opponent doesn't?

Skyshield landing pads :(   I think these still aren't allowed?
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
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Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2013, 06:00:46 PM »
Bastion only has one "floor", the internal space.  THe battlements are still "outside".

For the Aegis, I would say it doesn't count unless in Btb with the gun mount, and no friendlies are. 

Really, it should count as being in the possesion of the guy who brought it, by default.  After all, they're the one who paid points for the thing. 

It's also onl 50-100 pts, I dunno how fine we want to slice it.

Chase

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2013, 06:49:19 PM »
The fortifications thing is only an issue with the Bastion, right?  The defense line we've concluded must be forfeit except for maybe the gun, which may or may not be significant enough to force a change.  I'd like to get this worked out and feel correct though.

I'm not opposed to a discussion on moving it over to a points killed differential... I'd like to hear more from people on this.  I'm less concerned with how people feel about the change than I am with it making for a good, fun tournament design.

The reason I feel like we shouldn't use both Big Guns and Scour in a 3 round event is because they're basically identical.  I think some variety / difference in missions is important.  Although mission one isn't super different.  Mission one is strong, in my opinion, because it's VERY generic.

Using one (or both) as secondary is hard because they require 6 objective markers.  Any mission that's asking for 6 objective markers that is also going to have another "mission objective" is forced to use Kill Points (Purge the Alien) or invent something, which is not "6th edition."  I don't want to make Purge a primary because it's super boring.

I don't know if I love the Relic mission being primary.  I feel like it does favor / force armies to move, which is good.  I just don't know if I'm okay with that after moving to 3 Relics.  The strong get stronger type of thing.  Maybe this matters, maybe this doesn't.  Personally, I really like the way mission 3 looks as it is, but I'm open to suggestions.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 06:56:53 PM by Chase »
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Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2013, 07:28:02 PM »
Quote
The reason I feel like we shouldn't use both Big Guns and Scour in a 3 round event is because they're basically identical.

They're identical in mechanics, they are not at all identical in how they play out.  Mostly because armies tend to favor either heavies or fast attack, and partly because heavies and fast attack usually behave completely differently (Fast attack being, y'know, fast).  In any case, if you do only big guns you're being good to say, Tau and GK players but mean to Tyranid players.  Scouring is going to be good for say, certain Neron and DE builds, and bike marines, but horrible for Tau and lots of other armies.  Only a few armies are likely to bring some of each.

I do not feel the 6 objectives is the essential element of either mission.  I would feel free to drop that down to 5 and align it wiht a more standard Objectives mission.  Have the primary be only the objectives scored with troops, the secondary only the objectives scored with whatever special we're doing.  You could even do it with Emerporer's will. 


Quote
The fortifications thing is only an issue with the Bastion, right?  The defense line we've concluded must be forfeit except for maybe the gun, which may or may not be significant enough to force a change.  I'd like to get this worked out and feel correct though.

No, I don't think so?  Very seriously, this all goes away if you just count what is killed, which is how the  Victory Points is supposed to work, anyway.  Yes, it means Aegis players have 50 pts that cannot killed....really not the biggest deal.  Bastion's count when they are killed, as per normal, regardless of who posses it.  If you want you can also give up VP if the enemy actually occupy's the thing, but that is nearly impossible unless the owner "gives it up" without destroying it, so it's really just for funnsies.

Quote
I don't know if I love the Relic mission being primary.  I feel like it does favor / force armies to move, which is good.  I just don't know if I'm okay with that after moving to 3 Relics.  The strong get stronger type of thing.  Maybe this matters, maybe this doesn't.  Personally, I really like the way mission 3 looks as it is, but I'm open to suggestions.

Relic, and all "push" missions (like, when the obj on their side are worth more than yours) inherently favor some types of armies: high mobility, and slower mobile durability, i.e. it hurts gunlines.  Meh?  THat's something GW has decided it wants to do, and most of us seem to want to do it to, since a lot of custom missions have that kind of design.  I do not see how 3 relics punish it any more than one.  Really, I'm not sure I understand the nature of this particular objection.  I do think Relic should be primary for one, it's the only truly New 6th ed mission. 

Chase

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2013, 08:01:28 PM »
Good points.
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
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Chase

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2013, 08:39:53 PM »
We're going to use Points Killed and not the number of points on the table.
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
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andalucien

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2013, 09:44:30 PM »
Sounds good.  Please just include how Gun Emplacements are to be treated separately from their attached fortifications in the event description though.  This policy makes a lot of sense but it can't be inferred from the rest of the rules - no other unit works like that, where destroying an optional weapon upgrade scores a number of victory points equal to the cost of the weapon.  E.g, if I destroy both sponsons on a predator, I don't score however many points those sponsons cost.   
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

Chase

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2013, 09:51:58 PM »
Good call, thanks Matt (and Matt).
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
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Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2013, 12:02:25 AM »
We're going to use Points Killed and not the number of points on the table.

Woot.  And yes, an aegis gun is worth whatever it is when you kill it.  I'll point out a sponson doesn't have wounds and can be targeted separately, so it's not that weird.

Benjamin

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2013, 12:12:23 AM »
If you destroy a weapon sponson, that causes Victory Points to be scored equal to half the vehicle's total cost, which I believe in the vast majority of cases ends up being more costly than the sponson itself.

andalucien

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2013, 10:11:46 AM »
Ben, true.  But it's just not how you work out what points you get.   The nearest equivalent would be that if you destroy the gun emplacement, you get half the points of the overall piece of terrain.   I think that's actually not as elegant of a solution though - what if we start seeing purchaseable terrain with multiple optional gun emplacements?   Anyway, yeah this seems good...
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2013, 11:02:43 AM »
Since the guns are bought, and have wounds, and can be targeted separately, I think it's easiest just to count them as their own thing in VPs, just because it is simplest (and mostly works out to be about half the fortification cost, anyway).  Simple is good. 

Grimwulfe

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2013, 01:04:19 PM »
What happens in a particular bloody battle where I kill my foe to 1 model and I have only a couple left our dead pile ends and his killed pile is short a total of points and he wins because I couldnt possibly kill more because of this rule

I have to say I would be super pissed because he is essentially not playing with a full list per this rule
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Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2013, 01:43:37 PM »
Dude, anything within 400 pts was a tie for victory pts, last tournament, so it doesn't seem likely.  Most it could do is cost you 1 VP.

Grimwulfe

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Re: Feedback on missions?
« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2013, 02:01:06 PM »
Ah I see so thats not to bad then I guess.
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