Author Topic: Scenarios  (Read 3533 times)

Benjamin

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #45 on: October 11, 2012, 08:24:21 AM »
So when you say night fight by the book you mean chance for night fight then?
Yeah, the chance of Night Fight happening at least. If Night Fight isn't successful at the the beginning of the game, roll toward the end of the game until it's Night Fight or game over.

jhobin

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2012, 01:49:31 PM »
What about adding variable points for each objective in the mission?

Like;

Primary:
Calculating Kill Points: (Max: 6 Pts)   
Difference between the scores   
Draw   Each Player 1 point
1 to 3   2 pts
4 to 5   4 pts
6+         6 pts

and the same for secondary and a tertiary? Can cut down the chances of a tie in a 3 round tourney.
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keithb

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2012, 03:54:05 PM »
Still need to be remotely fair Jeff.

Someone shouldn't be able to get a gigantic lead by playing an easy first round matchup.

Secondly, VPs are better than KPs, unless KPs have drastically changed how they are counted.

Benjamin

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2012, 12:49:08 AM »
Someone shouldn't be able to get a gigantic lead by playing an easy first round matchup.

This does give me what I think is a good idea. Traditionally, each round is weighted equally. I think it would be better overall to reduce the effect of randomness by scoring higher for subsequent rounds. Maybe weight a three-round event like 25%-35%-40%. The last match-up is more likely to be against an equally skilled player, for which there should be a greater reward for victory. Also, I think it gives more hope to more players to keep playing on, knowing it is possible to make greater leaps in each round.

Benjamin

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2012, 09:22:01 PM »
While I was trying to take a nap, I thought about the math for a weighted-round tournament. The end result looks different, but I feel can be well understood.

Suppose one could score a maximum of 50 points per round (a random number for demonstration purposes). X = 1st round pts, Y = 2nd round pts, Z = 3rd round pts.

.25 * (x/50) + .35 * (y/50) + .40 * (z/50) = Final score

With a set-up like this, a total of 1 is a perfect score. Final scores would be a decimal, probably better thought of a percentage or batting average.

I really want to know what people think about this. I'm not seeing a downside, other than it being slightly more complicated for the score-keeper... who's just punching numbers into a spreadsheet anyway.

andalucien

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #50 on: October 20, 2012, 11:18:42 AM »
I think a downside that it is a bit harder to figure out for ANYONE who is keeping score (not just the official scorekeeper).   In between rounds everyone chats over Piezoni's pizza (TM) about how many points they scored, how many the leaders scored, how many points behind or ahead they are, etc etc.  I guess the chatting and Piezoni's aren't as important as the idea that each player is confident throughout the even that he understands how the scoring works and how well he is doing, how much he needs to score in the next round to make up ground, etc.  More transparency (and therefore less complexity) is better.

Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

Benjamin

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #51 on: October 20, 2012, 01:49:07 PM »
First things first, I need to edit the formula in the post and explain this a bit more, I think. I should also stress, I don't see something like this being used until... maybe February/March, if it all?

I guess the chatting and Piezoni's aren't as important as the idea that each player is confident throughout the even that he understands how the scoring works and how well he is doing, how much he needs to score in the next round to make up ground, etc.  More transparency (and therefore less complexity) is better.

I think the word you're looking for is comprehension, maybe even accessibility. Transparency implies something may be hidden, where I'm actually trying to figure this all out in the open.

I agree, it's more complicated to figure out exactly where one is during the tournament, in that there's another step in the calculation. No more instant gratification. To that end, I have an observation, and I have a solution or at least a pacifier.

The observation is that the net effect doesn't change. Players are still trying to score as many points as possible every round. How well you are doing (especially after the first round while you're in Piezoni's) is still based on whether you have scored more or less points than your opponents. And it's really only after the second round where things get layered. Points in later matches simply matter more.

A solution / pacifier is to include the scores on the match-up sheets at the beginning of every round. (Everyone's scores aren't known until then anyhow, because once they're calculated, the match-ups are made.) Since they're done up on a spreadsheet, again this is pretty much done automatically for the scorekeeper with formulas and stuff and things.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 02:08:46 PM by Benjamin »

Benjamin

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #52 on: October 20, 2012, 02:15:22 PM »
I confess I don't know exactly how Google Docs (or Drive or whatever) works. But here I'm attempting to share the file, a basic version of the spreadsheet. You should be able to punch in numbers and have results in real-time.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtuaJDE7Iqy1dDVFbURGRzktUXItNGhya0tPTEtJT2c

Also, with technology now, one can put the spreadsheet on their phone, figure out who among their friends stands where.

Seth

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #53 on: October 20, 2012, 04:40:47 PM »
i thought between rounds like magic they post the standings and next battles. i could be mistaken but even if they don't that is something they could start doing. then there would be no problem.
those who win every battle are not really skillful- those who render others' armies helpless without fighting are the best of all.  ~Master Sun Tzu

andalucien

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2012, 03:22:30 PM »
Maybe you could also do away with the multiplier aspect, and simply make it so that more points are available to score as the tournament goes along?  If the packet says that the primary objective is worth 16 points in the last round, whereas in the first round it was only worth 8, that would make it less headache-ey.

I guess we're getting sidetracked on the implementation details a bit,  rather than talking about the question, "is it a good idea for the later rounds to count more than the early rounds"?  Nobody is really chiming in on that.  I think that in general, I like the idea, for the reasons you mentioned.
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

andalucien

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2012, 03:26:55 PM »
So, just to clarify my earlier post:  I'm not afraid that there won't be a way for people to know who's winning.  I'm saying that it is a good thing when someone can easily look at what happened during the game, and easily grasp of what score he earned and exactly what that means for his standings within the tournament.   To me, even if I am given a tool (like a spreadsheet) that does the calculation for me afterwards, it makes it harder to THINK about during the game.  Regardless of the availabilty of helpful tools, I think that it's better to strive for fewer and simpler mathematical operations.
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
Club:  Errybody in the gettin tips
Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

Benjamin

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2012, 04:17:54 PM »
... "is it a good idea for the later rounds to count more than the early rounds"?  Nobody is really chiming in on that.  I think that in general, I like the idea, for the reasons you mentioned.

I agree. I'd rather be talking about whether it's a good idea if the later rounds count for more. I just can't help myself, I rush right ahead with examples and math.

If we did take take out the more complicated equations and went with a straight-forward increasing-number of points, the numbers might seem a little different than we're used to seeing. But it can still work. If I understand the idea correctly and using the same ratio as above, for example...

Objective in Round 1 - 5 points
Objective in Round 2 - 7 points
Objective in Round 3 - 8 points

Or maybe 10, 14, 16, whatever. The scale would have to be bigger to incorporate the smaller mission objectives in a balanced way.

See? Already back to the math, I can't help it!

Seth

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2012, 10:26:22 PM »
I like it. it makes sense because the farther you go along the closer you and your oppenent have been playing.
those who win every battle are not really skillful- those who render others' armies helpless without fighting are the best of all.  ~Master Sun Tzu

Benjamin

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #58 on: October 22, 2012, 09:59:08 PM »
Well, this is interesting.

I needed to simulate an event, but had trouble figuring out how to do it realistically. So I skipped the simulation and instead decided to apply my first concept (involving percentages) to the results of BG's latest 40k Singles tournament.

Google Document, ahoy!

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I don't know what to think. But there it is.

Chase

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Re: Scenarios
« Reply #59 on: October 22, 2012, 10:05:31 PM »
This is very interesting.
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