Author Topic: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition  (Read 2250 times)

Loranus

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Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« on: July 21, 2012, 12:03:22 AM »
They are now Chocolate Marines cause everybody likes Chocolate.

In seriousness I am going to break down my thoughts on what has changed with Vanilla Space Marines and what I think is the best way to go about with them. This is opinion based and what I have seen in games I played. You can disagree with me and I encourage you to post your thoughts on the matter. I strongly Discourage petty Arguments and derogatory remarks about what people have said.

Now on with the Discussion

HQ:
To Begin with All Chapter Tactics have been FAQed for them to only Affect units from the Space Marine Codex. If you Take a Blood Angels Ally they will not Affect his Assault Squad even though you have Assault Squads in your codex.

Marneus Augustus Calgar: With the Buffing of Terminatour Armour he really stands out even more so now as a Named Character. 4 Wounds 4 Base Attacks and Titanic Might make him a power house in CC especially with Titanic Might. As a Chapter Master he gets an Orbital Bombardment which is great for a One Shot Power house on Enemy Swarms but not much Else. Take him with his Armour of Antilochus Drop Pod him in with an Honour Guard First Turn and Deep Strike your Terminatour Squads off him and watch the Havoc Unfurl. He is a Very Solid Choice in High point games but you can not take full advantage of him 1750 or Below.

Cato Sicarius: A duelist in all the right terms. With an Instant Kill Move he will Challenge others Left and Right unfortunately his Downfall will be the 2+ armour Save since he has a Power Sword at AP3. You need to decide whether you want 4 attacks or 1 super attack if you gamble correctly you have a nice killing machine here. Granting the Special Rule is ok but in most cases your going to probably grant Infiltrate or Scout so you can put your Tactical squad in a position to guard an objective.  He has Feel No pain and Can reroll to seize initiative. Granting Leadership 10 by choice is cool but I don't see a reason not to use it considering you will still have combat tactics so you can choose to fail when you need to. 200 Points you take him when you want a very Solid Close Combat HQ without losing Combat Tactics. Stick him with a Command Squad and Challenge every character you can find and let your Command Squad Decimate the rest of it's unit.

Tigurius: Hes Overpriced at 230 points he gets to use 3 Psychic powers and a Master Crafted Force Staff. If you choose to use a Discipline he loses 6 Psychic Power Choices by using a Discipline. He still gets 3 randomly Generated powers which means you could get the one you want but you still need to roll for them. He is Mastery Level 3 still making him one of the best Psykers to use if you get the generated powers you need. Gift of Prescience does the same thing but 3+ reserves means in some games you may not even need it at all. He is a 100 Point Upgraded Epistolary with an Additional Warp Charge and Psychic Power. He will make sure everything is in turn 2 but otherwise I think he is overpriced.

Cassius: 125 points makes him the Cheapest Named HQ in the book. A Chaplan with Feel No Pain and T6 if your taking a Regular Chaplain without a Bike,Jump Pack, or Terminatour Armour you should take Cassius instead.

Pedro Kantor: Chapter Tactics give you Scoring Sternguard and Stubborn is useful to make sure that your units don't run from special attacks from other Codices. +1 attack to all units Around him makes him a Very Devastating Force if you get him into Combat with an Honour Guard or Terminatours. at T4 and a 3+ armour he is Very Susceptible to being Insta-killed in Challenges so I would avoid them and let him lead his troops with his buffs.  175 Points makes him well worth it for what he does if you have the points to build around him.

Lysander: I feel mixed about him. I want to Charge him into the Enemy with his STR 10 Thunder Hammer and Eternal Warrior. But his other Rules make you want to sit back and have him Hold the Line. I think the best way to go about it is Sit him Back and let people assault his squad take that opportunity to kill a Character force the Enemy back and kill the rest with a hail of Bolter type fire. 200 Points make him an expensive choice with not much of a benefit outside of Fluff IMO.

Kayvaan Shrike: Infiltrate in 12" movement and with Fleet rerolling a more controlled Charge means you could quite possibly assault with Shrike and his Unit First Turn. Lightning Claws with Rending means possible AP 2 at I5 with a Master Crafted Pair of Lightning Claws means you could be taking out Warlords or Other Important Characters First Turn if your lucky but I wouldn't rely on it. 195 Points makes him a little overpriced considering the nerf to assaulting but granting fleet to everyone means they will hopefully be moving faster and assaulting easier in 6th Edition may make Vanguards decent but I doubt it.

Vulkan He'Stan: One of the More powerful Characters in 5th got better in 6th. Twin-linking Meltas, Multi-Meltas, Flamers, and Heavy Flamers is even Better now with the pull away from Vehicles and the Addition of Overwatch and Snap Fire. 2+ Armour makes him Durable in CC. Master Crafted and Digital Weapons means hes a little more reliable to hurt things. A Heavy Flamer that is Twin-linked makes people think twice about assaulting him while he reeks havoc on infantry. The only nerf he really got was Relic Blades being AP3 so if he is going against anything with a 2+ armour He will be hitting and wounding but not outright killing. 190 points for what he does is reasonable just being in your army does a lot.

Khan: He needs to be reworked in some way cause he just didn't Translate well. Outflanking and Assaulting are out and with the rework to fleet Moondrakkan is still a Decent Upgrade but not as great for him as before. Moonfang still instant killing on 6 is good but again its an AP3 so any 2+ guy you may get it on may just escape it. If you take him you need to take a lot of shooting in from the flanks to hopefully just surround the enemy and kill them off. 160 base and 205 with Moondrakkan I would probably take him without it and try to just surround the enemy with firepower and let loose.

You then come down to the Basic HQS

Chapter Master and Captain: The Chapter Master and Captain are pretty much the Same deal one has Orbital Bombardment and Honour Guards while the other has Mounted Assault and Command Squads. In most cases I would take the captain as it gives you more Options and the Command Squad has an Apothecary granting Feel no Pain. The Chapter Master is Very Limited as well as his squad the squad does have 2+ and are better in CC but they don't have the versatility of the Command Squad.

Librarian: A Solid choice they bring the Most Versatility as an HQ with Psychic Powers . Lacking an Invulnerable Save they can be taken out easily if you don't upgrade them and they could outright kill themselves with Perils with it ignoring Invulnerable saves now. A Great Solo and Support HQ and with the greater range of psychic powers they would be a solid choice.

Chaplain: Unless your Upgrading him with a Bike,Jump Pack, or Terminatour Armour take Cassius.

Master of the Forge: You don't see many of him and the reason is to build around him takes a lot of points. The ability to take Dreadnoughts as both Elites and Heavy Support seems awesome but to take full advantage of it requires a lot of points. His upgrade the Conversion Beamer is quite strong but very hard to use correctly cause of positioning and being a blast template means your not getting much with it especially if you don't have much to hit with it.  He would be fun to play at 100 points and you build around him but not the most competitive in 6th.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 01:29:51 AM by Loranus »
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Loranus

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2012, 12:34:55 AM »
Troops:

Tactical Squads: The ability to snap fire and put combat squads in the same Transport is a nice little buff to them. They are now more mobile than before and you don't have to sit them still to be able to fire at enemies with their weapons. As one of 2 Basic Troop Choices you have they are very solid even if still weak compared to other Codices.

Scouts: Sniper Rifles with Precision Shots make these guys slightly better than before. The ability to pick out Special Weapons and Pin Enemy units makes them a very Solid Support choice. As a Base Unit they are Cheaper than Marines but suffer with a stat Downgrade. I would take 1 or 2 Squads with Sniper Rifles and a Missile Launcher to help support your Tactical Squads but I wouldn't use scouts alone.

Telion: He best fits here and is a great upgrade for a Scout Squad with Sniper Rifles. Using him you can always target those Special Weapons or Characters in a Squad and if you need that Missile Launcher to hit granting BS 6 to it will almost always make it hit.

Dedicated Transports

Rhino: A solid choice allowing you to fire with 2 guys and now that you can load them with both sides of a Combat Squad at the same time makes them incredibly useful to getting where you need to go.

Razorback: A solid Gun Platform they will be targeted and with the small space inside you may just take them with Special Squads like Devastators to get yourself extra weapon power.

Drop Pod: Not for your Troops Really I use them to get My Dreadnoughts into the enemy first turn as well as other Special Units like Honour Guard. Always take an odd number of them to best take advantage of Drop Pod Assault.

Elites:

Terminatour Squad: 2+ is awesome Again. Terminatour Squads strike a Balance between Shooting and Assault they do decent in both but dont Excel. They will be chewed up by AP 2 outside of CC but they can dish it out with a Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, or Cyclone Missile Launcher. Get them In assault and they will bog down a unit while punching them in the face with their AP 2 power Fists.

Assault Terminatour Squad: Excel in CC unlike the Balance of Basic Terminatours. With Thunderhammers and Stormshields they will be able to Take on any unit in the game in CC decently. Throw in a Pair or Two of lightning Claws and Infantry Squads just go bye bye.

Sternguard Veteran Squad: The name of the Game is Shooting Now and these guys excel at it. With Special Ammo and the whole squad to take Combi-weapons this squad will be your answer to shooting it all. They won't do well in CC but who needs to when you make sure they are dead before they get there.

Velnerable Dreadnought: They suck now. 165 points and Velnerable only works on Penetrating hits the and that won't stop them from wrecking with Hull Points now. Your basically paying 60 more points now for an upgrade of +1 to WS and BS. That really isn't worth 60 points IMO.

Dreadnought: Solid Choice of a walker. 105 Mobile Gun Platform that is Easier to Grant Cover. +20 Points and your going to be taking out Transports reliably while laying down wounds on Infantry. A lot can be done with them but rather fragile now outside of CC.

Ironclad Dreadnought: You CC anti-Infantry Dreadnought. Been Running this in a Drop Pod with Two Heavy Flamers on its DCCW and Seismic Hammer. Drop it down to avoid Anti-Vehicle Fire light up an infantry squad. Next Turn light up a squad and assault in or smash open a vehicle. 13 armor,Extra Armour, and Move Through Cover makes it very durable and very mobile. If you can get them onto your enemy line they can do damage and the best way is a Drop Pod.

Techmarine: 50 points to make your Vehicles more Durable or your Defenses. Can include a Servitor Squad but I feel like your better off taking him alone or taking a Thunderfire cannon. Been Tossing around the idea of keeping him in a Landraider with a Servo-harness and a Couple of Servitors to keep the Landraider alive longer and better. FAQed the Blessing to restore Hullpoints as well the only unit that can do this I know of so far.

Legion of the Damned: Expensive Durable and deadly. I like them but they are expensive to use in a game since their upgrades cost more than regular marines for most of them and you won't have them at the beginning of the game.

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Loranus

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2012, 01:29:00 AM »
Fast Attack:

Assault Squad: Your basic Close Combat Unit for Space Marines. They get more attacks then Tactical in Close Combat and are more mobile but sacrifice the shooting capability. You can get a Rhino or Drop Pod for free by removing Jump Packs but now you can't assault out of them on the turn you get out in any situation so it is Probably better to keep the Jump Packs. If you want to use Assault Squads your probably best taking them with Shrike  or playing Blood Angels.

Vanguard Veteran Squads: The Decked out Assault Squad they can all take special close combat weapons and/or Plasma pistols. Heroic Intervention lets you assault out of Deep Striking which may sound cool but must be declared before they scatter and you lose the ability to run or shoot. that could put you well out of range of what you want to assault and a Stationary target to lots of gunfire. They are iffy at best and since random Charge Length you may not even get in when your 3-4 inches away. If your going to use them take Shrike to at least make them slightly more reliable but even then I wouldn't take them.

Land Speeder Squadron: With the Inclusion of Jink your Landspeeders are a little more Durable than they were before but with 2 Hullpoints and Armour 10 they aren't that much. Otherwise a very fast weapon platform that you can move across the board to take out key squads with its equipment. The general Consensus is the best choice would be Multi-Melta and Heavy Flamer especially if you take Vulkan. If you want to specialize in Anti-Vehicle or Anti-Infantry you can take 2 of either. The only Question I have is the Tornado Patter which I think means a Pivot Based one that is on the bottom of the Landspeeder compared to the Limited firing arc of the one up top.

Space Marine Bike Squad: Jink, Hammer of Wrath, and the Toughness Increase now working on Instant Death makes a Major buff towards all bikes. If they move they get that 5+ cover save. If they need to assault they get an Extra STR 4 hit before anyone starts swinging. and the Toughness Increase is more Beneficial to your HQ,Command Squad, and your Attack Bikes. They are still finicky and with the ability of Rapid Fire to move and fire the same distances relentless seems less useful but the bikes being able to Assault after shooting all the Bolter and Heavy weapons then getting Hammer of wrath may make them a little more adept. Taking a Captain on a Bike lets you take them as Troop Choices as long as 5 are in the squad. You will Sacrifice model count for this though and you might want to support them with Scouts or Tactical Squads. I have had no Luck as running them as my only Troop choice. They will be tougher than  normal marines but have less forgiveness when you fail those one or 2 times.

Attack Bike Squad: Basically a Heavy Weapon Team of Bikes. Taking Multi-Meltas or Heavy Bolters they can be very Devastating to tanks or Infantry. They are even better now with 2 wounds and Toughness 5  Melta and Lascannons won't instant kill each of your bikes and Jink will give you a chance not to take that wound at all. Don't Assault with Attack Bikes they have a lot of Gunpower and No Worthwile Assault Capability. Hopefully if they do get assaulted the attackers die in Overwatch or are stalled long enough for you to get a good CC unit in there.

Land Speeder Storm: A scout Transport that disrupts deep strikes of the enemy army. A Must have if your doing a Scout Based army Especially with an Assault Based Scout Squad. Reducing the Enemy Squad to Leadership 2 if you manage to win combat you can wipe out the whole squad with a Sweeping Advance. Open-Topped makes it even more Fragile than a Regular Landspeeder but allowing for more gunfire and being an assault vehicle.

Scout Bike Squad: I don't see much use for them they have a lot of Gimmicky Stuff. The only good thing is they come with the ability of a Locator Beacon so you can speed them in during Infiltrate and Scout to make sure Deep Strikes land in proper positions.

Stormtalon Gunship: Its the Most Fragile Flyer in the game right now with only 2 Hullpoints but it has the firepower to make up for it. Being the Smallest Flyer you can gain cover with it easier than others and make sure it stays on the board easier. With a Twin-Linked Assault Cannon you can change its Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter for a TL Lascannon, a Typhoon missile Launcher, or Exclusive Skyhammer Missile Launcher. The Lascannon isn't worth it unless you really want to take down vehicles or other flyers but even then your probably better off with the Typhoon Missile Launcher. I would take Skyhammer Missiles on 1 if I was taking 3 to finish of a Vehicle or Flyer I already softened up with the other 2.

Heavy Support:

Devastator Squad: Your Bread and Butter all around good Choice for Heavy Support. They can be equipped with a magnitude of different weapons making them useful in most situations or you can specialize them making them Deadly to a particular target. Signum granting one with a BS of 5 for a turn can make that crucial shot almost assured.  With the introduction of Flyers when Flakk Missiles come out I wouldn't be surprised to see lists running 3 Devastator Squads with 4 Missile Launchers in each.

Thunderfire Cannon: Its good now. No Longer a Glass Cannon that can be glanced and killed by Bolter Fire the Thunderfire Cannon Can Lay havoc down to Infantry like you wouldn't Believe. I have 1 and in 6th edition its always made its points back so far. Getting a 75 Point Techmarine in the Bundle for 100 points makes it a steal as you bolster defenses and put another squad like Scout Snipers in to support you.

Land Raiders in general: Armor 14 make them very Durable Transport with 4 Hullpoints but Unfortunately they can be Glanced to death very Easily by a lot of Armies now. If you keep them alive they will keep the battle in your favor. They Die quickly you lost anywhere from 1/4 to 1/8 of your army. Avoid them in Low Point Games and in High Point Games your still gambling as they probably have an answer for them.

Predator: Cheap at 60 points they can crack open transports quite well. With about a doubling of the Price they can become a Deadly machine of death towards Vehicles or Infantry. I haven't quite cracked what to do with them atm I think if you take them take 3 of them and aim 2 of them for Vehicles and one for Infantry.

Whirlwind: If your thinking about taking a whirlwind your better off with a Thunderfire Cannon. They lack the Power to really Work on Vehicles and lack the Numbers to work on Infantry. They also have that deadzone of 12" around them you can't do anything about. With Armour 11 they are going to be popped very easily and will probably never get the points back.

Vindicator: I am going to get chewed out for this one. I think they are worth taking as long as you take more than 1. STR 10 ap 2 Large Blast at 24" will Decimate Vehicles. Decimate Infantry. Kill off Lower Toughness HQs and Characters. Devastate Terminatours. and the Like. Armour 13 means that a 6 on a Lascannon will pen a 5 will glance. Being Glanced now won't severely cripple the vindicator with a Stunned or Shaken or even a weapon Destroyed or Immobilised. They still are limited in Range but with a movement of 18 in one Turn now you can get them in a nice spot turn 1 and start firing round 2 no problem and possibly with 25% hull coverage to give them a nice 4+ cover save. I think they improved quite a bit from 5th edition but that has yet to be seen. 

Sample Army List:

This is a Very Basic Army at 1500 points I am putting together. The purpose of this list is a Very Solid answer to everything you may find. I am not saying this list is going to destroy everything you face but you won't feel overwhelmed and has some I feel very solid Choices.

HQ:

Vulkan He'Stan (190 Points)

Troops:

Tactical Squad 7 Bolter Marines, Multi-Melta Marine, Flamer Marine, Sergeant with Combi-Melta, Rhino Transport (215 Points)
Tactical Squad 7 Bolter Marines, Multi-Melta Marine, Flamer Marine, Sergeant with Combi-Melta, Rhino Transport (215 Points)
Tactical Squad 7 Bolter Marines, Multi-Melta Marine, Melta Marine, Sergeant with Combi-Melta, Rhino Transport (220 Points)

Heavy Support:

Thunderfire Cannon (100 Points)
Thunderfire Cannon (100 Points)
Devastator Squad 4 Missile Launcher Marines, Sergeant (150 Points)

Fast Attack:

Stormtalon Gunship with Typhoon Missile Launcher (155 Points)
Stormtalon Gunship with Typhoon Missile Launcher (155 Points)

Total Point Cost: 1500 Points

The goal with this list is not to heavily focus on one type of unit but have an answer for everything. You will be putting all your Tactical Marines in Combat Squads before deployment and in 6th both can be inside the same transport. You will do this for both your squads with Flamers but the Squad with Melta you will keep 5 Bolter Marines back sitting on an Objective or protecting one of your Heavy Support Choices. The Remaining Marines your Sergeant, The Melta Marine, Multi-melta Marine, and 2 Bolter Marines will deploy in the Rhino with Vulkan He'stan attached to them.  Your Thunderfire Cannons will Bolster 2 different terrains in your deployment zone and deploy into them. Your Devastator squad will deploy along with one of the Thunderfire Cannons in terrain whichever one has a better vantage point and/or better cover save after being bolstered. Your Stormtalons will stay in reserve and be deployed when they come in.

Depending on the Mission Type and type of Deployment you will change what you want to do during deployment but this is the basic idea. Everything in your Army has weapons to use against Infantry, Vehicles, Tanks, and Elite Squads. Tactical Marines will have Melta and Flamer to assure victory over infantry as well as Grenades and Melta for Vehicles. Your Devastator Squad will have Different Missiles for both Infantry,Vehicles, and Tanks. Your Thunderfire Cannons have Shells to Devastate Infantry in the Open, In Cover, and slow down units movement. Your Stormtalons will Be able to hopefully deal with other Flyers and if they don't have any the will devastate Vehicles and Infantry alike while being terribly difficult to shoot down.

I stayed away from Elites mainly cause of their focus on one Task. Assault Terminatours won't do much outside of CC and they will be slow to make it across the field unless I give them a Landraider which costs another 240 points for the cheapest one. Deep striking Assault Terminatours in leaves them vulnerable to shooting for a turn and usually your opponent will focus everything on them to make sure the don't survive. Regular Terminatours are the same issue they have Stormbolters but they need to walk across leaving them open to Gunfire and with an Invulnerable of 5+ means they will be eaten alive by Lascannons, Plasma, and Melta. With Deepstriking you will get a round of shooting in which will hopefully allow you to take out what will kill them but if you don't they will die. Dreadnoughts are Great but I just didn't feel a place to fit them in this list unless you drop the flyers but unfortunately Flyers will be needed in a lot of 6th edition games to deal with other Flyers until Flakk Missiles.

I Hope the Army list is useful and I encourage others to post their 6th Edition Space Marine lists and talk about your ideas.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 12:19:58 AM by Loranus »
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Ed

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2012, 03:14:17 AM »
To long didn't read.

SkavenSlave

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2012, 01:08:26 PM »
As one of my armies of interest and not getting enough play time I appreciate this analysis.

Was well written too - definitely not tldr for me.

Do the same with some other armies? Tau? CSM?


MarkG

Loranus

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2012, 01:37:24 PM »
Thanks Mark for the Compliment. I will look into other Armies and Break them down if people want me to. I do have my Chaos Space Marine Codex right next to me So I will look it over and see what little goodies 6th has brought to them and make a post about it.
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Grand Master Steve

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2012, 05:40:40 PM »
In my few games so far I agree with your analysis. I am thinmking of investing in a Thunder Fire cannon for a cheap heavy support now. The tech marine with it can Bolster defebces? that is impressive giving him and the cannon cover.

Loranus

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2012, 05:46:28 PM »
Yes its a 75 Point Techmarine making the gun cost 25 points. They FAQed also that Bolster Defences now works on any terrain outside of Fortifications. Making it less random to use in tournaments. Oh look I don't have ruins on this table oh well Ill just fortify that forest. The Gun getting it's own profile makes it so much better than before.
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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2012, 10:37:09 PM »
I am just getting back into WH40K after bascially an absence since 4th edition came out... so, thank you for the run down and FYI, very helpful!!!  I literally picked up the codex last week and have dusted off my paints and glue and started putting models together again, so hopefully I'll have an army list and start building up a force based off the starter set (Black reach)... although I was kind of hoping there'd be some news on the next starter set for 6th edition I guess I'm not holding my breath!  Oh, and I'm going with a storm trooper, I mean, Star Phantoms chapter for fun... never painted up a mostly black and white force before.  - Josh

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 12:22:22 AM »
Glad it could help.

For everyone as well I added to the post a sample army list I will be running in the near future and my thoughts on what I wanted by making it. I encourage everyone to ask questions and post your own ideas so we can all get a Better Grasp on 6th Edition and Conquer in the Emperor's Name.
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Grand Master Steve

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2012, 04:52:51 PM »
Yes its a 75 Point Techmarine making the gun cost 25 points. They FAQed also that Bolster Defences now works on any terrain outside of Fortifications. Making it less random to use in tournaments. Oh look I don't have ruins on this table oh well Ill just fortify that forest. The Gun getting it's own profile makes it so much better than before.

Take him and a Dev Squad on the cheap to save points and Bolster defences for all of them. Nice

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2012, 12:45:51 AM »
Quick Update I figured out looking over some stuff for our Friend Sergeant Telion.

He has been FAQed to include a Camo Cloak. Camo Cloaks do not Grant Stealth Anymore. The now increase a Cover save by 1. 5+ cover becomes 4+ and so on. He still has the Special Rule Stealth which Grants +1 Cover Save as well. These DO stack. So taking a Scout Squad with Camo Cloaks and Telion will Grant a +2 Cover to the cover that they are in. Real nice durability upgrade there if you sit him in Ruins or Behind an Aegis Defence line.
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Logan007

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2012, 07:12:49 PM »
You might want to give the Master of the Forge another shot -- I used him on a lark and he actually proved to be surprisingly useful.

I kept him out of combat and behind an aegis defense line and he spent most of the game repairing hull points and weapons on my dreadnoughts and predators. Sure, he doesn't have an invulnerable save, but keeping him cheap (with maybe just a power weapon to help out when things hit the fan) let's you put more points towards other things that are awesome at combat.

As a whole, I've come to feel that vanilla marines are even more shooty in this edition the last edition and the Master of the Forge has proven to be a surprisingly good force multiplier for me.

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2012, 08:05:41 PM »
A few notes about Drop Pods:

Bringing lists catered around Drop Pod tactics have become more efficient, now with the new disembark rules.  In the previous edition, you could only disembark models to be within 2".  Now, you can disembark wholly within 6".  On average, that's about 3 more inches of space, allowing for better positioning.

Amongst my friends in casual games, I've also noticed that the FW Lucius Pattern Drop Pod is extremely more useful (maybe even overpowered now).  Now that "Move Through Cover" allows models to ignore Dangerous Terrain tests, there's no reason for an Ironclad Dreadnought NOT to take one of these Drop Pods.  Combine that with the ability to disembark wholly within 6", and well...  You can see where that can get you.

I've yet to play Assault Marines with their Jump Packs in this edition, but I gather they've become more effective with the "Hammer of Wrath" USR.  Once I've played them, I'll share my thoughts on the thread.
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Loranus

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Re: Vanilla Marines and 6th Edition
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2012, 09:00:23 PM »
Disembark is 6" I thought it was like 3" omg that makes it so much Better for Ironclads as you said. I been playing my Ironclad with 2 Heavy Flamers in a Drop Pod specifically to hit behind enemy Aegis lines to take out troops so my flyers don't have to worry about being Intercepted.

The Assault Marines I been trying to grasp my head around for the sake of Blood Angels which my brother plays. You can use the Jump Packs once a turn during the Movement or Assault Phase. If you use them in movement you can move 12" if you use them in Assault you get to reroll charge distance and you gain Hammer of Wrath. Which may not matter due to overwatch.

As for Master of the Forge. Im rethinking myself on Fortifications right now and I agree that Master of the Forge behind an Aegis Line with Vehicles would make for such a strong foothold with your vehicles and Dreadnoughts. I have gone Shooty and tried being a little bit more Mobile with Combat units together in Rhinos. Unfortunately the 2 Fire Points in a rhino means they do nothing in the Metal Box until they get out.

I am gunning towards the Idea of just sitting back and Long Range Bombarding enemies and then using Rhinos to then rush in towards Objectives at End game.
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