Power Weapon and who can take what discussion

[Sir_Prometheus]

I am not a fan of the power weapon changes.

hrmm, I both like it and don't.

It returns the primacy of 2+ armor, which is good, in some ways.  Artificer and Termie armor was feeling a bit pointless on most ICs, who usually had a invo save, and were going to be targeted by a power sword anyway.

I worry that this exacerbates the supremacy of TH/SS termies, though.  However, it does reinforce the primacy of dakka as how to kill termies, so....

Very few things have AP2 but don't strike at I1 besides MCs.  Warscythes (but they're i2, so what's the difference) and the demi-flaives of incubi sergeants, which drazar also has, so he's super dangerous.

A few interesting things about the big heavyweight ICs....Mephiston versus Draigo is basically a slap fest, until presumably Meph misses a save and gets his soul sucked.  But there's a half decent chance (after 3 or 4 turns) meph wins.  On the other hand, Ghazgull can pretty clearly beat Draigo.

None of the DE archons special crazy weapons are AP2.  You're only option for him is to give him a power weapon, model it as an axe, and I see basically no one doing that.  Also, elves with axes looks silly.

Generally speaking, IC will try to get 2+ armor where they can, and then mostly fail to hurt each other in CC.  You might see some SM captains with power fists now. 

Oh!  There is point to having power weapon and rending now.

It has what I see as some pretty massively unintended consequences, too.  DCAs I'm going to model with both an axe and a sword.  Then they can go at I6 or 1, as they wish, and still get the +1 attack.  This also aids with "sniping" various models.  If only one model is going at i6, the model it's in Btb with (if there's only one) has to take the wound.  I don't see any reason not have my i3 crusaders modeled with axes. 

[Loranus]

Ok so now I am confused about the idea of power weapons. I give my Captain a power Weapon for +15 points now depending on what Actual Weapon the Model is holding is the type of Power Weapon it is? Example: Assault Marines come with a Power Sword and Power Axe if I give him the Axe does it still costs the +15 points and get the Power Axe Abilities. Does this go for stuff like Chainswords as well? Can I model a couple of Assault Marines with Eviscerators or 2-Handed Chainswords?

[Sir_Prometheus]

Yes, power weapons may be modeled as swords, axes, or mauls as you like.  It's just "as modeled".

No, on the eviscerators, that's an upgrade that only some armies even get access to.  2 handed chaninswords, I don't think so, either, but I'm less sure on it. 

[andalucien]

Crikey... I really hope it is not "stick whatever weapon you want the guy to have on there"...  if it is, Death Cult Assassins got buffed, not nerfed.   Just give them one axe and one sword.  Now they can use the axe versus terminators, and the sword versus everyone else.   Please tell me this isn't legal.

[andalucien]

Not to mention, they could choose to use the axe when assaulting vehicles.   

2 mix & match power weapons FTW.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Crikey... I really hope it is not "stick whatever weapon you want the guy to have on there"...  if it is, Death Cult Assassins got buffed, not nerfed.   Just give them one axe and one sword.  Now they can use the axe versus terminators, and the sword versus everyone else.   Please tell me this isn't legal.

Yes, that's exactly how it is.  And it was, in fact, my plan.  It's worse than you think, actually.  Picking different initiatives let's you "snipe" more effectively. 

[Banosby]

I haven't found a section in the rulebook for 'modeling for advantage', but I think putting axes on DCA, for example, would be.

The section under power weapons tells us to look at the model. When looking at the GW DCA model, it has two power swords. When I look at the GW SM Captain, on the other hand, I see a bunch of different options, as the Captain comes with all sorts of bits (I assume...I've never actually put a SM captain together).

Barring explicit permission to model things with different weapons than the model itself is equipped with, I'd be wary of doing so.

[Sir_Prometheus]

Bull.  My DCAs are already scratch built anyway.  but beside that, it's pretty clear they WANTED you to be able to switch oout power weaposn for axes and mauls, as a way to deal with termies.  Probably weren't thinkign of DCAs, though. 

[andalucien]

I think it's honestly hard to tell what they "meant to do" here. 

My DCA's are also non-GW models.  In the last tourney I had a unit of 5 of them plus a crusader + jacobus (costing about 200) take out 5 deathwing terminators plus belial while losing only 1 crusader.  This is not all that unusual and it is simply too good.  If death cultists were stuck at AP3 they would still be very good, but not broken.  Givng them the ability to kill snipe and kill vehicles at easily is not good for game balance.   

Not to mention, I can't picture a graceful whirling assassin holding an axe or god forbit a maul in her hand.

[Banosby]

I (honestly) have no idea what they intended. It seems just as reasonable that they intended some models (Chaplains) to have power Mauls, some (DCA) to have power Swords, and some (Captains) to be able to choose between them.

DCA (the model) comes with power swords, and the rules tell us to look at the model to see what it has. It seems the natural way to tell what weapons a model has is to look at the model GW gives us, just like the natural way to tell what size a model is would be to look at the model GW gives us. Actually, come to think of it, the rules for Power Weapons and the rules for True Line of Sight are very similar; they both tell us to look the model to see how it interacts with the game. Why would it be ok to give a model different weapons and not be ok to have it lying down or on stilts?

[Chase]

Until it's addressed in an FAQ somewhere, we are going to base things off of what weapons the GW model has.

I agree that with the new changes to power weapons that switching them up would be modeling for advantage.

[NateT]

Aww... I liked the idea of modeling fun, but can see the problems with it... I was already getting ready for my Crusaders (to accompany the DCA) with axes or mauls, or even power lances (spears).

[Sir_Prometheus]

The swords to Axes plan is an integral part of their new AP scheme.  Without, some armies, such as DE, can't even fight terminators in CC. 

[Logan007]

The swords to Axes plan is an integral part of their new AP scheme.  Without, some armies, such as DE, can't even fight terminators in CC.

I don't know a lot about DE, but aren't Wyches supposed to be pretty good against them?

[Sir_Prometheus]

Beyond that they have lots of attacks, not especially, no.  They will lose combat, for sure, whether they win in the end depends upon weather they got enough pain tokens for fearless.  Unlikely.