fortifications, yes or no?

[Sir_Prometheus]

I think it's more an oversight that guard (and other armies) have nothing with skyfire.  Shouldn't the Hydra and maybe the Manticore have it?  There's also the flakk missles that can be fired from missle launchers, but they have to be bought as an upgrade.  I think GW forgot about that when they did the updates and FAQs.

Hydra does have it.  IN fact, it doesn't have other use, since it can only snapfire at ground targets.

The way I read it (going off the bestiary in the back of the BRB), Flak missiles are integral to the basic imperial Missile launcher that SM troops and devastators and IG heavy weapons squads get.  No other kind of missile launcher gets it, not even eldar, though. 

[PhoenixFire]

I think it's more an oversight that guard (and other armies) have nothing with skyfire.  Shouldn't the Hydra and maybe the Manticore have it?  There's also the flakk missles that can be fired from missle launchers, but they have to be bought as an upgrade.  I think GW forgot about that when they did the updates and FAQs.

Hydra does have it.  IN fact, it doesn't have other use, since it can only snapfire at ground targets.

The way I read it (going off the bestiary in the back of the BRB), Flak missiles are integral to the basic imperial Missile launcher that SM troops and devastators and IG heavy weapons squads get.  No other kind of missile launcher gets it, not even eldar, though.

The flak thing stil isnt clear to me as it looks like you need to buy that upgrade with points.

from the book verbatim "All missile launchers come with frag and krak missiles as standard, and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk missiles. Each time a missile launcer fires, the controlling player must choose which type of missile is being fired"

it has separate entries for the typhoon and cyclone space marine missile launchers and looks like those do not get the option for flakk


As far as hydra it can fire at ground and air at normal BS because it doesnt have the interceptor rule.

A weapon with skyfire and interceptor rules is the one that can only take snap shots at ground targets

[Sir_Prometheus]

I don't know where you're getting the "buy with pts" thing.  The "Missile Launcher" (i.e. standard imperial) is the onyl one that has the flakk missile listed, no other. 

[Sir_Prometheus]

As far as hydra it can fire at ground and air at normal BS because it doesnt have the interceptor rule.

A weapon with skyfire and interceptor rules is the one that can only take snap shots at ground targets

You have that backwards.  A skyfire system with intercept may fire at both land at air targets at normal BS.  A skyfire only system may only snapfire at land targets.

No, I don't know why they conflated ground/air attack duality with a reaction fire ability, but they did. 

[tilarium]

I don't know where you're getting the "buy with pts" thing.  The "Missile Launcher" (i.e. standard imperial) is the onyl one that has the flakk missile listed, no other.

I think you're getting flakk and frag mixed up.  The standard imperial missle launcher comes with both frag and krak missles.  In the new book, page 57:

"All missle launchers come with frag and krak missiles as standard, and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk missiles.  Each time a missle launcher fires, the controlling player must choose which type of missile is being used."

Flakk missiles are new, they are not in the guard codex and the guard update makes no mention of flakk missiles.  I'm not sure if any of the other updates include the option or not as I have not read them.  I think it's an oversite on GWs part, one that will hopefully be fixed soon.

[MM3791]

It looks like there are 3 ways to shoot down flyers.

1) Flyers and allied flyers

2) Fortifications

3) Allied detachment, everybody can ally with Guard so Hydra will be used a lot. I need to double check rules but it sounds like armies with missle launchers (Guard, Chaos marines, and Space marines) will also make good choices for flakk missle access depending own your own faction.

[PhoenixFire]

As far as hydra it can fire at ground and air at normal BS because it doesnt have the interceptor rule.

A weapon with skyfire and interceptor rules is the one that can only take snap shots at ground targets

You have that backwards.  A skyfire system with intercept may fire at both land at air targets at normal BS.  A skyfire only system may only snapfire at land targets.

No, I don't know why they conflated ground/air attack duality with a reaction fire ability, but they did.

your right i did have that backwards, so basicly the Hydra Flakk tanks are REALLY overpriced now, and it just another reason to take a Aegis defense line as it can shoot at ground and air with full BS.

Another interesting thing abot the inteceptor rule is it gives you the option to fire at one unit that has arrived from reserves at the end of the ENEMY movement phase

so you just showed up with that stormraven? well it might not even get to shoot before i shoot it down

I don't know where you're getting the "buy with pts" thing.  The "Missile Launcher" (i.e. standard imperial) is the onyl one that has the flakk missile listed, no other.

like i already said above in the book it's written exactly like this

"All missile launchers come with frag and krak missiles as standard, and some have the option to upgrade to include flakk missiles. Each time a missile launcer fires, the controlling player must choose which type of missile is being fired"

it says "some have the option to upgrade to include flakk missiles" now to me every time i've ever seen the words "upgrade" in a book or codex it involves spending points

hopefully GW comes out with a FAQ or something explaining this away

[andalucien]

I will be disappointed if it turns out that the only reasonable way to shoot down flyers is with fortifications.  It seems to me that they could errata all types of stuff to have skyfire if they really wanted to.  You can come up with a BS fluff reason pretty easily for almost anything

"A little known fact about Fire Prisms is that they come from the planet Zarg, which was frequently beset by airborne raids from the Necrons, so everybody on Zarg was trained from an early age to fire at fast moving objects in the sky."  etc etc.

[PhoenixFire]

I will be disappointed if it turns out that the only reasonable way to shoot down flyers is with fortifications.  It seems to me that they could errata all types of stuff to have skyfire if they really wanted to.  You can come up with a BS fluff reason pretty easily for almost anything

"A little known fact about Fire Prisms is that they come from the planet Zarg, which was frequently beset by airborne raids from the Necrons, so everybody on Zarg was trained from an early age to fire at fast moving objects in the sky."  etc etc.

I think GW is using fortifications as the "i really dont want flyers in my army" answer to aerial defense.

It seems like they really want us to use (and buy) flyers for epic flyer on flyer air combat.

I really shunned flyers in my gk lists in 5th edition, now with the buffs to flyers and massive nerfs to rhinos i really need to rethink all my lists and buy some stormravens

[Sir_Prometheus]

It's a blatant money making move, and it's really angering.  In that vein, I really wouldn't mind if tournaments at large banned fliers, if for no other reason than to piss them off. 

[GossWeapon]

Fateweaver can make a sweet wizard tower landing pad for his bros.  Oh and he swoops. yippeee!!!

On a serious note, the fortifications seem ok, but theres no army that really needs them and theres none that if the points are there it isnt totally worth having.  Flying MCs have the most potential out of anything (way, way over fliers).  Vehicles are almost completely underwhelmed with the new rules.  The power weapon thing sucks for those who just wanted to have something look cool, but it is nice to see the options.  The allies matrix is really awesome for casual games where fluffy mixes make for a true army, but has huge potential to be broken, I doubt you will see many tournaments supporting it, however it has great potential to influence how doubles tourneys will work.  The crb powers are not really OP or bad, so there is some options there, although I laughed the 6 (which in fantasy is the 'ultimate') for fire is just a meltagun. The 29784536 new special rules/keywords are a bit daunting but most are pretty much things that already exsisted but fell under misc. categories.

Overall, I like this edition a whole lot more.  It will be really exciting to see how things unfold in the coming months.

[PhoenixFire]

It's a blatant money making move, and it's really angering.  In that vein, I really wouldn't mind if tournaments at large banned fliers, if for no other reason than to piss them off.

You've hit the nail on the head, it's incerdibly blatent.

Either buy fortifications that few people up until now have wasted money on, or buy our shiny new flyers if you want to be able to beat other peoples armies.

Because for 6th edition we've given you NOTHING in your codexs/ existing armies that can shoot back at them

[Loranus]

They are a Company I think making money is always their concern. Fortifications are one of those things that you will use or you will not. I love the Idea of Fortifications cause people will either build or make their own terrain that they will be able to bring around with them and show off at tournaments bringing another level to the Best Painted Army.

I dont have a Rulebook yet. But if someone makes a really awesome Tau type fortification for example he goes to a tournament and has an awesome Display Board that incorporates His Fortification I would love to see it. This is a Hobby Game and this is something as hobbyists you can get around by building your own. Matt saw me Saturday night Someone threw away a bunch of Empty Plastic Sprues from their Gaunts. I Took it home cause with It I can make Tank Traps heat it up a little stretch it out I can make barbed wired. How much is it going to cost me absolutely nothing extra cause I can use scrap materials. I know people are going to say I don't have the time or the ability. Practice Makes perfect and its not something you need to do all at once but if your still convinced by that then Games-workshop gives you an alternative which is buy some of theirs but they won't give it to you for free that is just silly.


BLAST WEAPONS are the bane of Flyers your scattering on a BS of 1 yes that can scatter a lot but you face a 1/3 chance of hitting compared to 1/6. Vindicator, Leman Russes, the Railguns on Tau Tanks, and probably others. You direct hit 1/3 of the time and the scatter if its like 6 or less will probably still clip the flyer and cause of the new rules the center doesn't have to be over the hull for the Weapon to be at full strength. Flyers are killable they aren't invincible and most of the armies do have something to deal with them. I will be shooting your Flyers out of the Sky with my Vindicators and Thunderfire cannons. Have a NIce Day.

[Sir_Prometheus]

You cannot hit flyers with blasts or templates.  Makes sense, if you think about it. 

[Grand Master Steve]

I think the game is a huge improvement. If I played an alien army I would make my own bastion. I really dont get all the qqing over flyers and Bastions every army has plenty of answers. You only need to make one investment into a new unit and thats it, it will last you.

If you dont feel like giving GW money which I dont disagree, then make your own. Its so easy to take some foam trays glue bits on, glue on a gun array and call it a bastion. Just cause they have a bastion kit doesnt mean you have to use it.

As for Flyers if your army doesnt get one, then make a bastion and give it a gun that can knock em down or if you get missles find the faq that probably is out some where thats says you get Skyfire. flyers can be answered 3 ways, other flyers, Defences with a skyfire weapon, or a missle launcher plenty of options in my opinion.