Author Topic: Theft and piracy  (Read 23986 times)

keithb

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #60 on: June 26, 2012, 02:39:38 PM »
If you were attempting to show compassion then you are even more condescending than I thought.

Look, right or wrong, you are entitled to your opinion, and that is great, but I don't have to agree, and when I don't, it isn't because I can't understand you. 

Let me ask you this.  Before speaking for Derek/chase et. al.  Have you even bothered to learn their thoughts on the matter?  I would wager not, because you don't seem to actually care about what they actually want, opposed to what you think they should want.

the_trooper

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #61 on: June 26, 2012, 02:56:03 PM »
If you were attempting to show compassion then you are even more condescending than I thought.

Look, right or wrong, you are entitled to your opinion, and that is great, but I don't have to agree, and when I don't, it isn't because I can't understand you. 

Let me ask you this.  Before speaking for Derek/chase et. al.  Have you even bothered to learn their thoughts on the matter?  I would wager not, because you don't seem to actually care about what they actually want, opposed to what you think they should want.

When did I say I was speaking for them?

Battleground

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #62 on: June 26, 2012, 03:04:19 PM »
You guys want to talk about religion instead?
"The final word, then, is the game." - Gary Gygax

the_trooper

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #63 on: June 26, 2012, 03:11:06 PM »
You guys want to talk about religion instead?

Shush!  Adults are talking!

keithb

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #64 on: June 26, 2012, 03:32:08 PM »
If you were attempting to show compassion then you are even more condescending than I thought.

Look, right or wrong, you are entitled to your opinion, and that is great, but I don't have to agree, and when I don't, it isn't because I can't understand you. 

Let me ask you this.  Before speaking for Derek/chase et. al.  Have you even bothered to learn their thoughts on the matter?  I would wager not, because you don't seem to actually care about what they actually want, opposed to what you think they should want.

When did I say I was speaking for them?

When you said both that they wouldn't want me discussing this on a forum they own, and secondly when you said that all gamestore employees would not want me to use a print out.

And you didn't say you were speaking for them, you just presumed to.

the_trooper

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2012, 04:16:49 PM »
If you were attempting to show compassion then you are even more condescending than I thought.

Look, right or wrong, you are entitled to your opinion, and that is great, but I don't have to agree, and when I don't, it isn't because I can't understand you. 

Let me ask you this.  Before speaking for Derek/chase et. al.  Have you even bothered to learn their thoughts on the matter?  I would wager not, because you don't seem to actually care about what they actually want, opposed to what you think they should want.

When did I say I was speaking for them?

When you said both that they wouldn't want me discussing this on a forum they own, and secondly when you said that all gamestore employees would not want me to use a print out.

And you didn't say you were speaking for them, you just presumed to.

By your logic, it's ok to steal if you don't feel like paying for it.

keithb

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2012, 04:43:08 PM »
Sure, but I put a lot of qualifiers on that situation, not a blanket "it's totally fine"  If you still think that is what I have been saying, you either A) haven't been reading my posts or B) can't understand my position.

Since A) would be pretty stupid in a (mainly) two person conversation, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just don't understand my position and it is over your head. 

I could have my kid sister draw some diagrams if it will help clear up any confusion on your part.


I also assume that since you did not refute my statement regarding you speaking for others, that you are conceding that you in fact did and are offering a humble apology.  I accept.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 04:47:09 PM by keithb »

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2012, 04:47:20 PM »
*sniff* I smell smoke from this starting to flame.

the_trooper

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2012, 05:01:49 PM »
Sure, but I put a lot of qualifiers on that situation, not a blanket "it's totally fine"  If you still think that is what I have been saying, you either A) haven't been reading my posts or B) can't understand my position.

Since A) would be pretty stupid in a (mainly) two person conversation, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just don't understand my position and it is over your head. 

I could have my kid sister draw some diagrams if it will help clear up any confusion on your part.


I also assume that since you did not refute my statement regarding you speaking for others, that you are conceding that you in fact did and are offering a humble apology.  I accept.

Keith why are you resorting to personal attacks and dragging others into this?  I thought we were playing the assumption game?  If that's not the case, I do apologize.  You are right, I am sorry for keeping you to a higher standard.

From now on, I wont make that make that mistake.

Social norms and subtle hints are too subtle for some. 

If you talk about piracy and how you advocate for it in any other than hypothetical case, shit can get messy for those who own the site.  Since you do not undersand this, I will continue explaining.  The internet (that magic thing you abuse with your ignorance) can be searched and parsed over time.

Many inernet forums have been served DMCA notices for less.  Digital Millenium Copyright Act is what DMCA stands for.  I don't care if you think its just my opinion.  It's how it is, it's how it works.  Companies, especially GW loves to bully smaller companies.

So get off your high horses you cheap bastards.  Realize that sometimes people are trying to drop hints.  Yeah, it's just as bad to get someone served a DMCA notice as it is to drink his last Sams.

JaredB

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #69 on: June 26, 2012, 05:12:03 PM »
So let's say you got caught for illegally downloading the book. If you said to the judge, "Ive already put thousands of dollars and hours into this so I don't need to pay for it". You think he/she will say oh ok nevermind? 

Grand Master Steve

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2012, 05:26:57 PM »
So let's say you got caught for illegally downloading the book. If you said to the judge, "Ive already put thousands of dollars and hours into this so I don't need to pay for it". You think he/she will say oh ok nevermind?

The judge will simply raise a brow and throw the book at you. Pun intended

JaredB

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2012, 05:32:32 PM »
Exactly. No matter how its rationalized its illegal. Fact not opinion

NateT

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2012, 06:34:03 PM »
Roaddogg certainly has the right of it from a legal point of view, infringement is infringement... however, my point all along has simply been that dealing with such things in a measured manner can benefit the community in ways that throwing the proverbial codex at someone does not.  The law is the law, but that doesn't mean you have to be judge jury and executioner.  Let GW enforce their copyright, let BG patrol their forums, and let us all just play some games.  That was my point, that more gamers will join the ranks with a bit of honey than piss and vinegar, and then, when they have had a few games and get a sense of community and the potential for fun, they do that mental math.  "This book is worth the 0.345 cents/gaming hour I will have spent when they release the next edition, so I must buy it... and that battalion box... and those finecast blisters... and that paint set... right now!"

This became a discussion with me only when a guy asked, in rather humorous fashion, I thought, if it would be cheaper to buy an iPad and pirate it.  He was beset by three or four people as if he had posted a  link to the damn thing, and this thread was begun... It became some sorta flame war at some point... hell if I know when...

Anyway, I have written my point of view, thanks to any who took time to read it... I write too much... and I appear to have a fondness for the elipsis...  and thanks for all the lively responses, but keep it clean and above the belt next time!   ::)

EDIT:  The religion comment DEFINITELY wins the forum war though, hands down!

Seth

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2012, 06:38:48 PM »
Rich, I didn't see the spot where someone said I am an adult now. why are you still arguing. No one is forcing anyone to buy the book. I am sorry that Gw has designed a business where they want to make money. And that every so many years they make a new edition to make money, and change things up to keep it interesting and fresh. If they didn't ever change the rules people would get bored and stop playing and eventually the whole game would become a warmaster or that other miniature game no one plays and you can't even remember the name of. You should be pissed off that they remold models if you are about the rules. A couple years back they changed the size of the termi bases there is a piss off point. They add models to new codices what the f now you have to spend money. There is no arguing it is by US copyright law it is illegal. if it is moral or not is up to you and your moral, but know that it is frowned upon in the store. I will most likely download it illegally so i have a digital copy and so i can learn the rules until i get a chance to buy it. but i will buy it before i even play a game. that is the same thing i did with my grey knight codex. and whoever said that who want to look through a laptop for the rules and not a book. the book on the laptop is a pdf. adobe has a search feature that will find every case of a word or phrase and go through them. so when looking for a rule you can't find i think that laptop would be 100 times easier.not that i am justifying i am just saying when search i would choice the laptop over the physical book for easy of finding something quickly and effectively. 
those who win every battle are not really skillful- those who render others' armies helpless without fighting are the best of all.  ~Master Sun Tzu

NateT

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Re: Theft and piracy
« Reply #74 on: June 26, 2012, 07:02:30 PM »
And as to the forums getting a DMCA notice... they are actually immune to any kind of damage like that, per the "Safe Harbor" provisions of the DMCA, 17 U.S.C. ยงยง 512, also known as OCILLA.  Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act is what that stands for... and no, no forum has been issued said notice from a copyright holder for less, because this simply a spirited discussion, and if GW were to attempt said notice, they would be liable for harassment.  There has been no violation of copyright or anything remotely close.  If anything the posting of rumored rules changes are more actionable than this... anyway, it's a moot point again, because BG and their forums would once again have no liability, as there are two requirements to claim the protection of OCILLA, and they are addressing repeat infringers (i.e. account termination) and accommendating standard technical measures (information location, etc;).  There are other great ins and outs, like they can't profit financially, and must take specific information down if ordered by a court, etc; but I am not an IP lawyer, so I got bored fast...

OCILLA full text http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512