Theft and piracy

[King of the Elves]

We should steal everything from everyone all the time.

 you mean looting 

[Benjamin]

We should steal everything from everyone all the time.

 Something else.

We should loot.

[King of the Elves]

We should steal everything from everyone all the time.

 we should loot 

Great idea, Dylan!!

 Thanks Ben!

[Grand Master Steve]

I dont like re-making anything formyself  unless my choice is spenging offensive ammounts of money. My thunder Hawk for example has damaged gun arrays. Can I call forgeworld and say "hey can I get new heavy bolters?" Nope I cant Forge Wold wont do it. So I either have to shell out for a new kit which is obserd, or see if some one has the kit unassembled and cast the damaged parts, make replicas and replace them on my hawk.

GW does ripp people off in a way that they wont replace lost or broken off parts. You will just have to order an entirely new kit. If I have a specific bit on one of my space marines that breaks off and dissapears years latter im screwed GW wont sell me a replacement bit. If i can easily get replacement bits i will do so but sometimes the evil of casting and molding is necessary because GW has poor customer service in replacing missing stuff. Am I going to sell it to any one? No. Am I making any sort of Profit? No. I am just making logcal sence to find a means to an end because a thick headed company wont support their clients. Thus making it neccesary for the clients to do it themselves.

[Ed]

Lets be serious for a min Ben. You steal players casualness.

[Loranus]

I dont like re-making anything formyself  unless my choice is spenging offensive ammounts of money. My thunder Hawk for example has damaged gun arrays. Can I call forgeworld and say "hey can I get new heavy bolters?" Nope I cant Forge Wold wont do it. So I either have to shell out for a new kit which is obserd, or see if some one has the kit unassembled and cast the damaged parts, make replicas and replace them on my hawk.

GW does ripp people off in a way that they wont replace lost or broken off parts. You will just have to order an entirely new kit. If I have a specific bit on one of my space marines that breaks off and dissapears years latter im screwed GW wont sell me a replacement bit. If i can easily get replacement bits i will do so but sometimes the evil of casting and molding is necessary because GW has poor customer service in replacing missing stuff. Am I going to sell it to any one? No. Am I making any sort of Profit? No. I am just making logcal sence to find a means to an end because a thick headed company wont support their clients. Thus making it neccesary for the clients to do it themselves.

If you recast your own piece to repair a product is Perfectly legal at this point and time. Games-workshop also has everything manufactured on a sprue. If you have a problem like your model came with a missing piece on the Sprue Games-workshop sends you a whole new sprue/model to replace it cause its more cost effective than casting the individual piece. 

In fact I don't see how its ripping you off they don't offer a service and your not paying them any money for that service. You bought a complete functional kit and due to circumstances beyond their control something happened to it. If they sent you a faulty product say like a Stormwall missing a Torso and they won't replace it yes they are ripping you off.

Privateer Press offers all the Individual Pieces cause they cast them Individually and they can do that. I still haven't seen any of the Retribution of Scyrah's Heavy Myrmidon Parts go on Sale and I am missing a piece and would like to replace it. They in fact offer all the other parts for other Armies but not the one I play and they offer the service. That to me seems more like a ripoff since I don't have the same ability cause of the army I play.

But this isn't an argument about Privateer press versus Games-Workshop.

I own 2 codexes Chaos Space Marines and Space Marines as well as the Hardcover 5th Edition rulebook.

If you come into a tournament at Battlegrounds and you can not pull out the Codex for you army when a Rules Question comes up what happens? It is a Requirement for the tournament and I don't want to have to go searching through a laptop to find the ruling on a unit's Action.

You download a PDF for a codex and Print it out at say your local Staples. It costs you 20$ and its on cheap copy paper in a 3 ring binder that Costs you an additional 1$-2$. 22$ you spent that doesn't go towards the company for the game your playing but in fact to another company that in no way supports your hobby. Yes a Codex costs 42$ now and the only thing I regret from spending money on it is the Portion that goes to Matt Ward. Time goes into testing, developing, and writing the books and products that any company sells and the stores for ordering it advertising it and selling it to you. To take that money away is one thing but to give it to another company who has nothing to do with your hobby is way worse in my opinion.

 

[JaredB]

If you don't want to pay for the games then don't play. Playing these games is a privilege not a right. And you need to pay for that privilege.  Stealing the new rule book because you already put time and money into an army and don't want to pay anymore is not a good excuse. sure it gets expensive but if you can't afford it you don't get it.   
 Computer games keep upping the system requirements to play them and I've already put thousands of dollars into computers over the years to play the most current games. Is it ok for me the steal the new parts? No so its not ok for you to steal the new book no matter how you try to justify it.

[Ian Mulligan]

If you don't want to pay for the games then don't play. Playing these games is a privilege not a right.

LIKE

[NateT]

Well... That's not really a good analogy.  If I buy a computer game and my Pc meets the specs, I can play ad infinitum.  If they come out with the sequel, and I don't meet spec, well too bad, back to playing the original.  If they tell me download this patch for basically retail price or we'll disable your original copy... Well, that's closer to the GW business model than your original analogy, though still not the best...

The problem is one of scope.  GW tries to reinvent it's game and FORCE you to buy an update, that they arguably charge an arm and a leg for... But we are already in for 10K worth of models, so that rubs a lot of us the wrong way, understandly.  And releasing the book 2 months prior to the mini rule book is also simply a way to max profit at the expense of loyal customers.  I'm taking the two months off, personally.  But I can't say I won't check it out online... Curiosity and all...

It does seem a little pedantic to say, if you don't want to pay, don't play.  Not a soul who plays GW games "doesn't want to pay.". We have all paid, a lot in many cases.  And that's the frustration...

[JaredB]

It is the same because nothing is stopping you from continuing to play the current edition.  Gw isn't coming to your house and burning the rulebook you have now.

[JaredB]

Also I understand that it sucks you already paid so much. This is an expensive hobby. But that does not give you the right to steal

[NateT]

Ah, you're right... a better analogy would be if the new full retail patch only prevented the multiplayer and social media/community aspects of my previous version...

I think I need to clarify, of course GW has every right to do what it does.  And pirating any IP or media is both immoral in a strict view and illegal in any view.  But, I understand the frustration, and know how easy it is to rationalize.  And sitting there saying, "Nope, it's just wrong, you need to pay to play, blah blah blah" overlooks the effects GW business model can have on it's customers and fan base.  I don't want anyone to quit the game, period.  I want the community to grow, and Derek and Chase to live high on the hog, and I feel GW often says, "screw that long term growth, gimme that short term profit margin!"

That's my issue, and it's a good discussion.  Simplifying it to "pay or don't play" or insert analogy here, doesn't do it justice.

[JaredB]

If its not that blunt people will do anything to rationalize it. Ive been having this arguement for years. That wasn't always my point.  But after having this argument for so long that's what it comes down to.

[PhoenixFire]

No one is forcing anyone to buy the new book, that being said i don't think i've ever heard anyone say "hey who wants to play some 40k 4th edition?"

There are still people who play 2nd edition vs 4th edition of Dungeons and Dragons and people who play old call of duty games online instead of the new ones...

Warhammer just isnt one of those hobbies, if you want to get a 5th edition game at your house the GW secret police aren't going to come for you, if you can FIND somebody to play 5th edition at battleground no one is going to stop you.

But to me its poor form if you show up at thursday 40k with a bootleg copy of 6th ed rules

And I'm pretty sure all the BG tournaments REQUIRE you to bring a current copy of the rulebook and a current codex (as well as datasheets if you are fielding apoc or FW units).

Bottom line to me is if you don't want to invest in 6th edition then don't come to the tournaments and dont complain about it. Yes 75 bucks for a new rulebook sucks  (especially when most people are going buy the new Black reach and use that rulebook in 2 months anyway) but Battleground is already letting you come and play for free whenever you want! They dont search you at the door to make sure you bought your whole army and books there... dont insult them by bringing a bootleg copy

[Battleground]

The cost of the rulebook probably ends up equalling about 10 cents per hour of entertainment gleaned from using it (if that). We spend about 50x that amount every time we go to see a movie.

These books aren't like hardcover novels that we read once and put on a shelf, or stick in a box, or loan to a friend after we're done with them (The last Game of Thrones hardcover debuted at $34.99). By the time a serious 40K player is finished with this book the binding will be well worn and its pages will be marked with potato chip grease and orange dorito-flavored fingerprints. It will be read cover to cover and then referenced hundreds of times.

I'd pay $100 for it, and sooner or later GW will probably figure that out too.