Dakkajet Question

[Bill]

I am on the fence about this. Let me know what you guys think. I am going to try to give you all the facts to make a deduction. 

The brb says that if a fast vehicle moves 12-18" is counts as moving flat out. 
Skimmers get a 4+ cover save from doing this. Vehicles that move flat out sacrifices all of its shooting.

Red paint job gives you 1" extra movement but specifically states that this 1" does not incur ANY penalties for this 1." 

Dakkajets have aerial assault which means I can move 12" and fire all my weapons. Red paint job makes this 13" so I am flat out but do not incur the penalties per RPJ. Do I get to fire all my weapons and get a cover save?

It seems kinda sketchy but the wording seems clear. It is obviously a GW oversight but I can see them FAQ in favor Of doing both. If Sam could weigh in, I am curious how this would be ruled in a event.

[andalucien]

Very devious.  That would make red dakkajets AWESOME, no?

[Bill]

Not awesome just maybe live past one turn. MAYBE

[Mad Dok Rob]

As much as I would love this to be true (and I hope it is) I am pretty sure our DakkaJet will not be getting a 4+ save.  I am pretty sure that it is still considered to be a normal move, which is why our RPJ Battlewagons can move seven and still shoot. 

Of course, it still takes a 6+ in melee to hit a RPJ BW that has moved 7 inch (more than 6).  So I can see it being ruled either way.

[Mad Dok Rob]

I think in the 6th ed rules, there are going to be some flyer style rules added.  Unless the gun is AA or pintle mounted it is -6in to range and if you move more than 6in it takes 6's to hit.  I am pretty sure that is what the Apocalypse rules are right now.  Which would make our little jet a bit more survivable.

[Bill]

I agree the thing that makes it really interesting is that it ignores any penalties (sacrificing shooting) and the INAT FAQs the RPJ to say that anything considered a disadvantage to the ork player is ignored. Also if an ork truck moves 7" with an RPJ it still takes 6s to hit the vehicles in CC. This sets past practice that moving over 12" with RPJ movement does not effect other rules.

The bottom line is it is one of those things that has no clear or correct answer. The RAW is clear you can do both shoot and cover ( remember scarab conga) but RAI is unclear ( again remember scarab conga)

[keithb]

realistically this is only a question for then next singles.  And then 6th is out.

[andalucien]

Hmm, if a red paint jobbed trukk can move 7" and still shoot, and ppl still need a 6 to hit it, I don't think there's any question that the dakkajet gets a 4+ cover save if it moves 13".   

[keithb]

Hmm, if a red paint jobbed trukk can move 7" and still shoot, and ppl still need a 6 to hit it, I don't think there's any question that the dakkajet gets a 4+ cover save if it moves 13".

That is because the truck can "count as" moving 6" in order to get the shooting benefits, but moved 7" so can only be hit on 6s.

However, the 4+ cover save doesn't have anything to do with how far you move. Only if you are moving "flat out" or not.  Flat out means you gain a 4+ cover and cannot shoot, (it also allows you to  move more than 12").   RPJ allows you to move 13" while still moving cruising speed (if you so choose).  However, moving 13" and cruising speed doesn't give you a 4+ cover.  Only moving "flat out" does. 

[Moosifer]

Hmm, if a red paint jobbed trukk can move 7" and still shoot, and ppl still need a 6 to hit it, I don't think there's any question that the dakkajet gets a 4+ cover save if it moves 13".

That is because the truck can "count as" moving 6" in order to get the shooting benefits, but moved 7" so can only be hit on 6s.

However, the 4+ cover save doesn't have anything to do with how far you move. Only if you are moving "flat out" or not.  Flat out means you gain a 4+ cover and cannot shoot, (it also allows you to  move more than 12").   RPJ allows you to move 13" while still moving cruising speed (if you so choose).  However, moving 13" and cruising speed doesn't give you a 4+ cover.  Only moving "flat out" does.

I think Keith hit it spot on.  It is how RPJ effects cruising speed and flat out speed that needs to be clarified

[Chase]

Sam plays Orks AND is our rules guy.  I'm sure he'll have an answer as soon as I let him know this is here.

I'll call the store now.

[Chase]

As it turns out, he's been talking about this at the store for a little bit.  He's going to post his answer in a sec.

[Sam]

Moving Flat Out is not a declared action, like ramming. Flat Out is just a third level of speed. INAT describes a situation in which the Ork vehicle is simultaneously moving at two speeds: Combat speed for the purposes of the Orks shooting out of it, and Cruising speed for the purposes of people assaulting it. This is the exact same situation: the Dakka Jet moves Cruising speed for the purposes of shooting, but Flat Out for the purposes of incoming fire.

To clarify: the 4+ cover save is granted to any skimmer that moved Flat Out in its last turn. Flat Out is defined (on page 70) as moving more than 12". Since inches moved is the only arbitrator of the level of speed, that;s what we have to go by. Ridiculous? Yes. Legal? Also yes.

[Bill]

Thanks Sam, appreciate the clarification. To those who have not seen the rules. This by no means makes the Dakkajet amazing. It is just slightly closer to worth it's points and is only relevant till the rules change in 30 days or so.

[Ed]

I bet that 30 days will feel like that sweet period in magic when you get 2 core sets and 2 blocks.