Author Topic: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012  (Read 1276 times)

Chase

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Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« on: May 29, 2012, 01:25:34 PM »




Thanks to everyone that came out and made this event a great time.  It was a fun field and was particularly cool to see.

Congratulations to the winners!

1st Place - Mike Kachanis and Troy Esposito - GK + SW
2nd Place - Bill McFadden and Simon Leen    - IG + BA
3rd Place - Wyatt Traina and Matt Cassidy - Orks + Templar
4th Place - Bill Souza and Hans Cote - Orks + BA


Player's Choice - Terra and Dean Jonson


Best Appearance (Army) - Tim Regan - Space Marines

"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
- Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

Chase

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2012, 04:37:02 PM »
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
- Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

Mike_k

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2012, 06:59:22 PM »
As can always be said about a BG event its a 1 day mini GT. The level of competition in attendance was awesome.

Thanks to everyone for the congrats and the people who I play with regularly and tolerate me.

Great time, great games, great event.
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Benjamin

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2012, 08:08:04 PM »
Dave and I had a great time, some good memories before he moves to California this week. 10th place is a personal best, and I couldn't have gotten there without him.

That we positioned ourselves to place in the top and fell short, well, I have a video for that. Replace references to Tony with Dave and you will see what is in my heart... on my sleeve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLIrmhzGaNo&feature=related

Grimwulfe

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2012, 10:11:22 AM »
Had a blast grats to all the winners.  Always a good time.
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Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2012, 01:25:10 PM »
Well, I can say I played 3 of funnest games I've had in a long while.

I know I mentioned it, but it would really be good if missions kept to a zero sum policy, more or less.  (i.e. there are 30 pts total to be split between the two sides, maybe 1 pt is lost on ties, and bonus pts are fine)

Things like mission 1, where it is possible for both sides to score zero pts, always throw things off. 

Banosby

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2012, 04:49:49 PM »
How do they throw things off?

keithb

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2012, 06:00:42 PM »
How do they throw things off?

Hard fought, even games in mission one could end up with the combined score between the two sides adding up to far less than missions two and three.

Basically if you had a close draw in round one, compared to round two or three, it hurt you more.

Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 10:42:16 AM »
It's basically my supposition that every mission, bonus mission pts aside, should add up to "1" winner.  Maybe one player is .74 winner, and the other guy .26, but it still adds up to 1.

keithb

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 11:01:31 AM »
It's basically my supposition that every mission, bonus mission pts aside, should add up to "1" winner.  Maybe one player is .74 winner, and the other guy .26, but it still adds up to 1.

Or .5 to .5  ;)

Banosby

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 02:54:33 PM »
Keith, why is that a bad thing?

Sir_Prometheus: I get that, but why? I would understand in a Nova style W/L format, but in battle points, isn't it good to have more players score fewer points? The 'problem' with battlepoints type formats is that you frequently have a large number of people who have near max points at the end and you don't get much differentiation.

keithb

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 03:05:56 PM »
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that a tie resulting in 50-50 was bad.  I meant good.

I think the idea is that Matt is talking about is this.

It is reasonable to assume that at least one of my games at a tournament will be harder due to a bad matchup or player skill.   If I have taken the time to build a well balanced list that can reasonably compete for most/all mission types and I fight this bad matchup/equal opponent to a draw.  Should we not both "screw" each other, based solely on which round we play?

I personally am a big fan of "massacre" scoring, where If you win big you get 100% of the points (but this should be very difficult to achieve).  Likewise, if it is a narrow win/loss or a draw, you should get 45%-55% of the availible points.

There shouldn't be a situation where a draw results in both players getting 20-25% of availible points, for a number of reasons.
1) the round the result happened in shouldn't determine the amount of points you get.  A draw in RND 1, should net you the same amount of points as a draw in RND 3.
2) Leaving points on the table like that more likely results in both players/teams getting a LOSS instead of a draw, which is what really happened.
3) This now leaves BOTH teams having an extremely hard time placing, where having 2 wins and 1 draw in a 3 round event should put you right in contention for 2nd-4th.

I get your point about separating the field, but there are other ways to do it.
I (of course) highly recommend the way we did it at templecon.  (ETC) style.   You have 2 mission "objectives"  One is primary, one is secondary.  Primary is worth more, secondary is worth less.   Then you also have a sliding scale VP table.  I found that the scores moved around quite a lot.

Chase

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 03:16:41 PM »
It's an interesting discussion.

People do seem to like the zero sum stuff.

Personally, I'm not sure it matters too much. Really, for larger events, I feel like the way mission one was scored is BETTER than the others.

The nice part about battle points over straight W/L is that they show that not all wins (or losses) are created equal.  There IS a difference between winning and winning big, just like there is a difference between losing and losing big.  BPs reflect that... or try to.

The reason I prefer BP based scenarios for our tournaments is that I strongly feel they ask far more of the players than any other kind I've seen.  Any time you give players the option to make an additional choice you are increasing the dynamic of your event and making it "better."  BP scenarios do that very well.  I feel that mission 1 from this last event did it particularly well.

BP tournaments aren't about winning or losing, they are about scoring AS MANY POINTS AS POSSIBLE.  If you happen to "win" the game, cool.  That's probably how you get the most points anyways.  Just remember, the "W" or perceived "W" comes second to how many points you score.
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keithb

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 04:11:25 PM »
I certainly agree chase, but should a draw in round one score you less points than a loss in round 2 or 3?

Banosby

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Re: Results: 40k Doubles Tournament on 5.26.2012
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 04:23:30 PM »
Keith, would making all rounds the same in this regard fix most of your worries? That is, make it so that in all rounds, getting a draw is 'bad'? This is basically a system where you get 1 point for losing, 2 for tying, and 4 for winning, which as I understand it is fairly common in gaming/sporting. Basically, one win and one loss is better than two ties. I'm not really advocating this system (to be honest, I don't really care one way or another all that much), but I'm having a hard time seeing why people don't like it. I take your point about having one game determine more than other games, but that seems like a problem with having a mixed system (some games ties are fine, some they aren't) than with having ties being 'bad'.