Author Topic: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice  (Read 1427 times)

Dragon1282

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Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« on: May 01, 2012, 01:03:11 PM »
I recently just got into the game and I started with the Chaos Daemons as my first army.  The question I have is, are there any tactics or tips to playing the daemons? I played with a friend at 790 point armies, he had the dark eldar.  I was using skull taker for my HQ, I had 20 bloodletters one using the rending special bonus ability, I had 10 daemonettes of slaanesh with one having aura of acquisence, and a soul grinder with all vomit profiles... using deep strike was not a benefit to me at all... and as for shooting units I noticed the daemons only have one troop and one elite that can shoot, so I found it to be extremely painful in the first round I deploy from DS... is there a good strategy that anyone can suggest? Thanks

Chase

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2012, 02:58:03 PM »
I am 100% sure you're going to get some great help.

I'll email this thread to the guys that are most qualified to answer you.
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Bill

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 03:21:33 PM »
First and foremost welcome to the hobby and second congratulations on choosing Daemons which is my favorite army to play. Daemons are a difficult army to master but is a blast to play at any skill level. The way that I like to run daemons is to play them with layers of traps which plays heavily into how you deep strike. You want to force opponent to make a decision and regardless of what it is, it is the wrong one. This can only be done to 100% effectiveness with deep striking armies. It is difficult to show that over a forum so my advice is to track Ben down during a Thursday 40k or I would be happy to make a special trip down.

As far as list goes and shooting, daemons actually have some Of the most reliable anti tank in the game in form of heralds of tzeentch on chariot, the daemon prince of tzeentch both with bolt and infamous fateweaver. They can all drop to try and negate cover, bolts are ap1 for an auto +1 to the chart and with the exception of the herald all hit on 2+! Anti infantry you will HAVE to do in close combat. There is no way around that. The side effect to all this neat stuff is that our troop choice are not the greatest as they all have a very defined role and cost a premium. Expect to try and take as little troops as possible bulking up on big nasties. This all if you are looking to play competitive of course. Expect a newer daemon player to run 4-5 troops in 2000 pts and a veteran daemon player to only run 2-3 at 2000 pts. I currently run 3 and only usually use 1-2. The exception of this is people trying to get as many bolts of tzeentch as possible than you will see 6 units of 5 horrors with bolt.

Benjamin

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2012, 07:53:03 PM »
Howdy, and to echo Bill's welcome, congratulations on choosing the most fun army in 40k! You'll never play the same game twice. For learning, that's a double-edged sword.

Let me say first, I'll be teaching someone this Thursday how to play both 40k and Daemons. It'll be very casual, so if you're in the area, stop in. Discussing 40k is much, much easier in person, especially with the sheer quantity of topics.

Bill's had far more success with Daemons than I, but we agree on most Daemon tactics. He just rolls dice pretty darn well and has many, many more years experience than I.

Daemons gamble, constantly. Get used to winning big and losing big. You will lose units to Deep Strike mishap, and you will scatter 12" the wrong direction. That doesn't make you a bad Daemons player. You have to weather the storm of crazy dice.

Turn 1 for any Daemon army is going to hurt, period. It's the price you pay for landing wherever you like and giving the bird (Fateweaver?) to Deployment. Your best bet is to get comfortable landing in areas that will provide cover, even if this means taking Dangerous Terrain tests when you land. That's what your Invulnerable save is for. Don't forget to run!

It also helps to play aggressively, because as Bill pointed out, this forces your opponent to make decisions. As you get more experience, you'll learn where the boundaries are and how much you want to push.

By the way, there was apparently a pretty radical Daemons list that just placed very well at Adepticon, but I can't seem to find it. I'm dying to see it, if someone can dig it up.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 09:18:24 PM by Benjamin »

Ed

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Dragon1282

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 12:29:08 AM »
Thanks, I think I shall come on Thursday to learn some more as well as getting as many helpful tips as I can get... I'm going to bring my fiance too to try and teach her the game as well... see you guys Thursday

andalucien

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 09:33:27 AM »
My take on Daemons is a little different.   While superficially "random" due to the deepstrike deploy, once on the table they are actually very stable and predictable and a little "Vanilla" compared to other armies.   They are all fearless so the entire morale system is meaningless to them.  They all have invul saves and are eternal warriors so they don't really need to worry about devastating weaponry - all guns are the same to a Daemon really.    There are no transport vehicles so there are no swingy rolls on the vehicle damage chart, and the whole extra mechanics of vehicle movement, embarcation, firepoints, is missing from the codex.   And with a few exceptions, their models have FEWER tricky rules than nearly any other army - they're basically just collections of stats (albeit quite impressive stats in the case of greater daemons) and stick within the core 40k rules. 

So, strangely enough, I would say that Daemons are almost the PERFECT army to start out playing 40k!   You have to figure out how to deploy, but in return, you don't have to worry about many of the other problems that plague other armies...

...

I for one am hoping that the next Daemons codex contains a lot more "kooky stuff", more like the codexes that have come out since Daemons.  I'm talking instability, force org switches based on HQ's chosen, tzeentchian ability to "mess with" an opponent (at least Lords of Change should have some sort of shadow-in-the-warpish power). 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 09:57:53 AM by andalucien »
Name:  Matthew Forsyth
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Where I play: basically I only show up for tourneys or when I'm on my way up to New Hampshire to visit my folks.  I live about 45 mins from both stores, to the south.

Dragon1282

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 10:40:41 AM »
That is a very true statement though... I have definitely noticed that the daemons are simple to set up, or as you said "vanilla" I just bought my second army... chaos space marines... there are a lot more rules I need to know about with them...

Benjamin

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 08:14:34 PM »
I for one am hoping that the next Daemons codex contains a lot more "kooky stuff", more like the codexes that have come out since Daemons.  I'm talking instability, force org switches based on HQ's chosen, tzeentchian ability to "mess with" an opponent (at least Lords of Change should have some sort of shadow-in-the-warpish power). 

The wishlist is a long one for me. The ability to manipulate reserves in any way would be brilliant, or barring that, Apocalypse-style Daemon deployment. Messing with enemy Psyker abilities should be a given. Epidemius' Tally should take hold immediately, not at the start of one's next turn. Furies should either be dirt cheap or just out of the codex entirely. Troops worth taking. Nurgle Greater Daemons with T7.

I have a feeling 6th Edition will be good for Daemons.

My take on Daemons is a little different.   While superficially "random" due to the deepstrike deploy, once on the table they are actually very stable and predictable and a little "Vanilla" compared to other armies.
I'm sorry, which half of the army is showing up again? There's nothing superficial about Daemon randomness. I wouldn't call them vanilla either. There are just too many ways to tinker with lists, outside the Troops choices. Each of the Chaos gods does have a general theme when it comes to stats and abilities, but when those abilities are awesome, it's just neither boring nor plain. Fateweaver alone should dispel the notion of vanilla.

Also, learning how to deploy is one of the most difficult yet necessary things to know for 40k success. Dragon, I'm glad you have a more conventional army as well. Daemons give you a pass, but deployment is too important to not fully comprehend. Understanding how and why an opponent is set up is crucial. Daemons and other Deep Striking armies tend to evoke some rather strange enemy deployments, too.

Anyway, Dragon, my first army was Chaos Space Marines, so I'll be able to help you with that as well. We have a couple new Chaos Marines players creeping into semi-regular Thursday attendance too.

andalucien

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2012, 10:53:24 PM »

The wishlist is a long one for me. The ability to manipulate reserves in any way would be brilliant, or barring that, Apocalypse-style Daemon deployment. Messing with enemy Psyker abilities should be a given. Epidemius' Tally should take hold immediately, not at the start of one's next turn. Furies should either be dirt cheap or just out of the codex entirely. Troops worth taking. Nurgle Greater Daemons with T7.


I would also like there to be some reward for running a mono-god army.  It would be cool if there was actually some kind of a gameplay reason to think about something like "how can I make the best possible Slaanesh army".
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Benjamin

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2012, 11:16:11 PM »
Like an army-wide bonus in a mono-god force? I'd be down with that. It is strange sometimes to be playing an army with a little bit of everything in it. Currently, Khorne and Tzeentch are the only gods for whom a mono-army is even viable.

Khorne could have Rending, Slaanesh could grant Aura of Acquiescence, Nurgle FNP could be 3+... Can't think of one for Tzeentch. Heck, just bump everyone's BS up by 1. There, just off the top of my head.

Hey! Knock it off, stop distracting me. I'm supposed to be writing up a new list and instead I'm chatting away the night.

Mad Dok Rob

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2012, 12:06:30 AM »
Bah, all dem Chaos figs is bit weedy to me.

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Dragon1282

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2012, 03:41:54 AM »
That would be awesome Ben, I would love any help I can get with either one of my armies.  I actually just won a really cool piece for my chaos daemons... its the burgled plague hulk from forge world... he will make a cool looking soul grinder lol... the one thing I would love to see for 6thyou addition changes for the daemons and chaos marines is a complete blend of the two... I think it would be absolutely crazy to be able to see a soul grinder and a defiler side by side with some chaos terminators and some daemons all fighting together...

Benjamin

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2012, 08:09:40 AM »
the one thing I would love to see for 6thyou addition changes for the daemons and chaos marines is a complete blend of the two... I think it would be absolutely crazy to be able to see a soul grinder and a defiler side by side with some chaos terminators and some daemons all fighting together...
That actually used to be the case, with Chaos all under one codex. I'd be fine with that, so long as I could still run mono-Daemons. Power Armor and I do not get along at all, and making Leadership checks is for other people.

Dragon1282

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Re: Im new to warhammer 40k and could use some advice
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2012, 04:22:20 PM »
I ordered an interesting looking soul grinder... it is the nurgle plague hulk from forge world... will this be a piece i can use during tournaments? Or will people not allow it?  I just want to find out just in case i can get my army built up big enough so i can play in rournaments...