Journeyman League! Abington! March 1 Start!

[Ian Mulligan]

Chances are good I'll be joining next week with Mercenaries.

[Loranus]

I had fun even though it was a long night for the elves. Myrmidons, man. I got to get the hang of using wussier warjacks.

That's Cause they are not warjacks they are better.

Were you running the Journeyman Battlebox or your own Im kind of curious.

[Demonster]

Morghoul, just wow, it's a whole new game. >.>

[jonm]

That's Cause they are not warjacks they are better.

Were you running the Journeyman Battlebox or your own Im kind of curious.

To preface, I'm mostly using the league to a) play the army I play the least b) work on models that haven't been painted yet. Sadly I already have most of that standard battle box complete so I made up my own. Right now its Rahn a Phoenix and a Chimera. If I were feeling rich the Chimera would be a Manticore for better melee hitting power, but I couldn't justify buying another one when the Vyre kit is coming out in a couple weeks.

I was never out of any of my games by any means, and when I add some reinforcements next week I'm sure things will change. I'm looking forward to adding infantry because I feel like that's where Ret gets most of its blue chippers from.

I personally don't think myrmidons are better than most other factions warjacks. They certainly play differently (at least the Shyeel ones, less certain about Vyre til I try them) as they need more finesse.

[Loranus]

I'm a new player just curious considering I picked up Ret as my starting army.

[jonm]

I'm not new to the game, but I am somewhat new to the army. Even with the games from Thursday I've had about 10-12 actual games with my Ret. I kind of more collected the army that actually played it when it first came out. I guess that is to say that my opinion isn't fully formed and I'm still very much finding things out about the army.

My comment about their warjacks being wussier is split. On one hand they're incredibly frail once their shield is breached. They lose systems pretty quickly once that happens. On the other hand, I could probably utilize them better.

[jfoodmaster]

As opposed to Jon who had a kinda frail battlegroup to start, mine seemed pretty good to start. I think that mine is gonna be crappy for a couple of weeks but get better at the end. I think Jon's going to be good for the next couple of weeks. Battlemittenmages are gonna be BOSS.

[jonm]

Yeah, I think I'll get stronger as we go. Rets strength is in their infantry and solos. Once I start adding them I think it'll turn the tables.

[GossWeapon]

Retribution jacks, when looking at combat capabilities, are very poor when compared to other nation's options.  You mostly take them because you have to or for the utility they offer (strong aoe, arc node, vortex lock, etc).  The main power behind ret is it's units/solos and synergy.  Its my guess that once you hit 25 John you will start to notice the game you want to be playing.

[Rofel]

General question/opinions:
In a competitive setting do people create more all-rounder lists or lists tailored to do one specific thing?

I ask this because I was looking to get some Widowmakers for my eIrusk list to make it a bit more well-rounded. Unfortunately the store I went to was out of Widowmakers, but I did pickup a War Dog and the Great Bears of Gallowood.

[Ian Mulligan]

Widowmakers are almost always worth it. They can ping the last few points off of a 'jack's system or a warbeast's aspect or kill single wound infantry ignoring some powerful arm bonuses from Cygnar and Menoth. Against Cryx, I use them to knock off arc nodes on their bone chickens with rolled damage. Go damn, I love these guys.

I really, really recommend any Khador player owning a unit.

[jonm]

Retribution jacks, when looking at combat capabilities, are very poor when compared to other nation's options.  You mostly take them because you have to or for the utility they offer (strong aoe, arc node, vortex lock, etc).  The main power behind ret is it's units/solos and synergy.  Its my guess that once you hit 25 John you will start to notice the game you want to be playing.

I pretty much agree. The Phoenix and Banshee boast the hardest hitting base weapons (P+S 17). The Manticore can get up to 18 but it has to spend one of its three focus to do so. Obviously if it also charged a target then that doesn’t leave much room for additional attacks or boosts. Without spending a focus to boost his strength he’s stuck at 15, which is about the same P+S as the remaining heavies. Not too inspiring.

They're really hearty utility pieces. They finish things off in melee, but they aren't scrapping anything outright. I feel like in the lower point games when other armies have multiple heavies on the table (i.e. Paul's two Berserkers -- with the Butcher no less) you really miss having solid hitting power. 

This week I’m either adding a unit of Battle Mages, Skeryth, or an Arcanist and double Mage Hunter Assassins for an assassination vector. I was under a bit last week so this week I’ll get some decent reinforcements.

General question/opinions:
In a competitive setting do people create more all-rounder lists or lists tailored to do one specific thing?

I think for this league I’m pretty much building a single list that I’ll play against everyone with. I might swap out a solo or something here and there, but that’ll probably be it for me. If people choose to swap their caster then it might shake things up a bit. 

[the_trooper]

General question/opinions:
In a competitive setting do people create more all-rounder lists or lists tailored to do one specific thing?

I ask this because I was looking to get some Widowmakers for my eIrusk list to make it a bit more well-rounded. Unfortunately the store I went to was out of Widowmakers, but I did pickup a War Dog and the Great Bears of Gallowood.

All-rounders in the sense of take on anyone is usually the case.  As in, my eCaine list I'll use against most any army if I want to go for the assassination victory condition. I made it so I can have advantages against both Hordes and Warmachine.

Widowmakers, as Ian has stated, are my bane when it comes to my poor, poor stormblades.  I can buff them up to 20 arm easily and yet those widowmakers will still kill them without issue.  They aren't game breaking but really help in most lists.

[Ian Mulligan]

They aren't game breaking but really help in most lists.

Dude. They are the bee's knees against Menoth and Cryx. Like, if you can get a clear shot on the monolith bearer pre-pop, they're heroic. And like I said, a full squad usually messes up a bone turkey enough that they have to wander around bashing.

With certain casters, they're a must have. eIrusk, the Vlads, and any of our board control casters make them SO much better. I love popping the Old Witch's or Zerkova's feat and getting another free round of thinning infantry or working on a weapon arm on a 'jack.

[GossWeapon]

Widowmakers are pretty much the balls of khador list making.  They do what you need and do it well.  As far as your question:

For the league you only have basically one static list so I would look to cover what bases I could at least to some extent.  This is a much more casual league and meant to get new people like yourself into the community.

For a steamroller or other tournament you have two lists so typically you will see one of two things.  Either a player will have two well-rounded casters/warlocks which can perform well in both scenario based play and have kill-box/assassination presence.  Or, you can go the other route and have one heavily focused on each aspect. 

A well rounded list should have something to deal with the following at the very least if you want success:
-High armor (20+)
-High def/stealth models
-Spells/anti-magic
-Weak points your caster has
-a solid objective holder
-something to tie up/kill infantry
-a way to kill a caster effectively (this means no relying on outlandish rolls)
-Khador should probably also find ways to either get mobility or hinder the opponents mobility

Assasination lists should have the following concerns, with the above covered afterwards:
-Mobility methods up the ass
-something to deliver the killing blow (usually the caster)
-ways to clear a path
-delivery system
-protection/failsafe

Scenario guys should look for this, plus a good mix of the first list:
-High armor guys or a tarpit unit
-High defense guys
-mobility
-abilities like dig in, stealth, camo, incorporeal, or some other way to stay in there.
-a good aoe to clear off an objective
-an ace in the hole in case winning by scenario aint happening.

Khador should always have a way to deal with stealth and incorporeal, as magic is scarce beyond the warcaster. I recommend the grey beards (or whatever the old dudes with ice picks are) as the have solid utility and magic, plus sprays are great.

There you go, Goss's tactica of the day.