1750 Point lists Discussion

[Thefallen]

The thing I'm nervous about is that I made my first Daemons list with *zero* Monstrous Creatures. It did get me thinking in new directions for Daemons.

I can say honestly that I worry more about the little daemons than the big ones. The big ones just seem to die fast to Multi-lasers and such.

What did you end up going with? I can see mini-daemons working well, but I think they'd be hampered by their crummy troops. Honestly as IG I really don't fear any of the Daemon Troop selections, and I'm interested to see if you can overcome that.

Well I'll tell you how I'd make them afraid. I'd just park my battlebarges and strike cruisers in orbit and commence exterminatus of your planet. See simple.

[Benjamin]

Long story short, your IG have little to fear from my list, barring an unprecedented explosion of luck.

Daemon troops are generally awful, so I just go with preference. In my case, Bloodletters. I like to kill things, and they can do that in assault. I did take a Horror squad because they're cheap, but their BS 3 generally fails me. Sometimes though, their 4++ save can bog down even the most stalwart assaults. I wanted to spend even less on Troops than I did.

Both choices have the remote potential to open vehicles, which is better than the other three choices of Nurglings, Plaguebearers and Daemonettes. (Daemonettes *could* with Rending, but at T3, they never live long enough.)

Basically, my list looks something like...

Skulltaker on Juggernaut
7 Bloodcrushers
6 Fiends
6 Fiends
8 Bloodletters
8 Bloodletters
8 Bloodletters
4 Horrors & Changeling, Bolt
4 Screamers of Tzeentch
Soul Grinder, Phlegm
Soul Grinder, Phlegm

You've got enough tools to deal with all of that.

I'm just curious if it'll break me out of my general pattern of "1 win, 1 loss, 1 draw".

I'd usually take Fateweaver for his crazy fun element, but he's been throwing up all over himself lately. And with his two heads, that makes for a really big mess.

I'm one crazy spending binge away from saying, 24 Bloodcrushers, each squad led by a Herald, and Kill Main Burn!

[KestrelM1]

Daemon troops are generally awful, so I just go with preference. In my case, Bloodletters. I like to kill things, and they can do that in assault. I did take a Horror squad because they're cheap, but their BS 3 generally fails me. Sometimes though, their 4++ save can bog down even the most stalwart assaults. I wanted to spend even less on Troops than I did.

I've seen good results from minimum units of Plaguebearers. Usually something like 3x5 is sufficient, if you make sure to put them far away from the action. Usually I can't spare the effort to really take them down when there's much nastier things in my face (courtesy of all the extra points you can now spend on Elites/Heavies).

I will also say that Fiends are pretty solid for charging car parks. As with anything with daemons, though, it requires a bit of luck.

[Bill]

I am finally running some plague bearers and I love them. Very annoying to kill with small arms fire and anything more than that people don't want to waste on 5 man troop units going to ground plague bearers are brutal.

I like your list Ben you should do well with it. My list is very different this time around I am excited to see how it does.

[canadianone]

Ben, your list would KILL mine. If you deep strike your fiends 24 inches away behind cover, and then assault, i can't stop you and you can basically take out half my army with one charge.

[Benjamin]

The players I'm up against usually have the tools to circumvent FNP. Then, even if the PBs are on objectives back out of the action, I find late game objective rushes by opponents are more often successful than not. Whether it's a vehicle or infantry, the PBs just can't kill anything. Usually things fast enough to contest are also fast enough to avoid being killed most of the game too. That's been my experience, at least. I see the math that says PBs should be hard as nails, but mine never are.

I just had this very debate on YTTH. Basically, there are strong opinions about the some of the worst Troops in the game. Which is the least worst? There's no real answer other than what happens to work for you.

To Emory's point, my Daemons HATE Tau and always over-perform. The Greater Good is almost invariably chopped into fish sticks. If I can get matched up against Tau in the tournament, then I'm good. More likely than not, I'll play Hans again, we'll be loud and boorish, he'll beat me again and I'll pretend to threaten to fake beat him up in real life. Because plastic space mans is very serious fun.

[canadianone]

Well considering that half that people at BG play Tau, id say you have pretty good odds

[Chase]

To bad half the regulars don't play in the tournaments. 

[canadianone]

Come on Tau Players! Represent!

[Ed]

Ben you can't field anything that is nurgle haha, but nurglings. Well it seems like this.

[Benjamin]

Ben you can't field anything that is nurgle haha, but nurglings. Well it seems like this.

That's actually quite true. Not too many people can say their Nurglings killed a Trygon. Anything else Nurglish I attempt to field dies as soon as it hits the board.

*shudders at remembrance of the highly ineffective all-Nurgle list* 

[canadianone]

Alas, poor yorrik-the-trygon, i knew him well =( that was SO annoying the damn things wouldn't die, and i just didn't pass armor saves!

[KestrelM1]

The players I'm up against usually have the tools to circumvent FNP. Then, even if the PBs are on objectives back out of the action, I find late game objective rushes by opponents are more often successful than not. Whether it's a vehicle or infantry, the PBs just can't kill anything. Usually things fast enough to contest are also fast enough to avoid being killed most of the game too. That's been my experience, at least. I see the math that says PBs should be hard as nails, but mine never are.

Sucky. I can see the issue with late-game contesting, but unfortunately that's something I think you just can't solve with the current Daemon codex, if your opponent is vehicle-heavy. I'm surprised your opponents can manage to spare that much S8|AP2 on plaguebearers with all the other stuff that should be threatening them, but maybe I just don't pack as much as others.

[Benjamin]

Against the Plaguebearers, Str 8 won't do it since they are a natural T5.

Where the Daemons have trouble stopping transports, I find power weapons and power fists have little trouble being escorted across the board and have no disinclination to assault the PBs. A Las-plas razorback will have three AP 2 shots, two twin-linked, all wounding on 2+. And that same Razorback will Tank Shock it's little heart out.

So anyway, my thought is if I'm going to have only 5++ saves, I might as well have power weapons and Furious Charge for about the same price.

If the game goes to Turn 6 or 7, there's a small chance for those objecting-stealing vehicles to get got. Whim of the Chaos Gods, and all that.