Rules Discussion for Tanksgiving 2012

[Destecado]

Not sure if this is too soon, but while it is still fresh inour minds, I thought it might be good to kick off a discussion of what worked and what didn't work in the most recent Tanksgiving (2011) Extravaganza and what changes to the rules contributors would like to see implemented. 

I'll start it off...

Delayed Spawning for Destroyed Tanks   

One of the issues discussed after the event was the fact that competitors would allow themselves to be killed every turn, so that they could maximize their ram attack when entering the board in the following round.  It was suggested that a competitor could earn additional points by surviving (not being destroyed).  This could potentially put super-heavy tanks at an advantage. 

I propose an alternative.  If a tank is destroyed the owner rolls a D3.  The D3 represents the number of rounds before the tank re-spawns.  Rather than being rewarded with free points, tanks that survive have the benefit of still being in play; having the chance to earn more points (by destroying or immobilizing other tanks) while the destroyed tanks loses the opportunity to add to its point total while it is out of play, waiting to re-spawn.

[KestrelM1]

I'm not really sure I like the delayed respawn. I have a couple issues with it, but the main one is that delaying the respawn means that a player is sitting around watching other people play for d3 rounds. I'd very much like everyone to have something to do each round.

Ramming is an issue unto itself. The points structure is set up in such a way that is extremely rewarding to rams. Ramming a tank to death is the equivalent of 2.5 regular kills, ramming a super-heavy is the equivalent of 4. The problem is that there are two incredibly distinct types of Rams:

1. Normal Ram Attacks
2. Deffrollas

A normal Ram attack is a low-yield move and has to be set up in pretty ideal circumstances in order to do damage (i.e., you're going to have to move 12"+ in order to get your Strength up to tank-damaging levels) and you get one shot on the damage table. This is the kind of thing that should be worth 1.5 extra kills worth of extra points.

The Deff Rolla, on the other hand, is an incredibly potent anti-tank weapon that delivers multiple automatic S10 hits, regardless of how far the user traveled, and even has the (albeit low) chance of yielding multiple kills if enough targets are clustered together. Killing a target with this weapon really shouldn't be worth 1.5 extra kills due to its relative ease, especially in the "respawn anywhere" format.

My thoughts for improving on Tanksgiving are:
1. Deffrolla kills should not be worth any bonus points. If the actual Ram attack preceeding the Deffrolla kills the target, then you get the extra points, but we really shouldn't have Ram and Deffrolla attacks yielding the same (substantial) bonus.
2. Strength D weapons should probably be banned. They have a laundry list of bonuses over other weapons and confer massive advantage to their user(s).
3. Self-destruct mechanism for "boxes." If you spend at least one turn immobile and with all your weapons destroyed, on the next turn you can self-destruct your tank for a S9 hit on anyone within 3d6". Gives both an incentive for people to finish the damaged tank and gives the "box" owner a chance to do something other than pass their turn. This could also be considered as an upgrade on the table.

[Benjamin]

Whatever stuff I wrote in the other thread. Something about more points for being closer to a table-centered objective marker... That would solve many problems, and make the game more dynamic. (Read: Not a board-edge hump-fest.)

I waited long enough between turns at Tanksgiving. Making me wait 1d3 rounds longer with my tank that was not good enough to live, that will not do. I don't see why Super Heavies need the help. They're flippin' Super Heavies.

There should simply be a flat number for killing a tank. Kills by Ramming should not count for more points, simple.

[Sir_Prometheus]

I agree that dying was essentially a good thing, and that this should be reversed.

However, I don't like downtime, downtime is no fun, and this is supposed to be a fun event.  I agree that a simple minus pts for dying would benefit superheavies, however I think you could balance this by having the penalty be appropriately higher for super heavies that died.

Furthermore, I think we should just ban ramming from off the board edge.  It is technically possible to do in regular 40K, however it's actually a much more technical and finicky process than people realize.  Most people were not doing it right, at all, but it frankly was possible within the time constraints available (i.e. 60 seconds) to show people how it may, and may not, be done.  Also, as everyone realized, the tactics of off-board ramming change considerably when you can come in from any spot you want. 

[Destecado]

Whatever stuff I wrote in the other thread. Something about more points for being closer to a table-centered objective marker... That would solve many problems, and make the game more dynamic. (Read: Not a board-edge hump-fest.)

Given the size of the table multiple objective markers might work best.  One of the scenarios from the 500 point tournament earlier this year had objective markers where you earned points each round.  The amount of points earned depended upon if the objective was uncontested or contested.  Being able to hold position near an objective while fending off opponents would definitely add a new dynamic.

[Benjamin]

What's a rules discussion without rules? A straight copy-and-paste, then we can work on dissecting it.

RULES FOR TANKSGIVING

Rule Books:
The Warhammer 40,000 Fifth Edition Rules will be used.

The following is a list of legal army choices:
Codex: Black Templars
Codex: Blood Angels
Codex: Chaos Daemons
Codex: Chaos Space Marines
Codex: Grey Knights
Codex: Dark Angels
Codex: Dark Eldar
Codex: Eldar
Codex: Imperial Guard
Codex: Necrons
Codex: Orks
Codex: Space Marines
Codex: Space Wolves
Codex: Tau
Codex: Tyranids
Codex: Sisters of Battle (White Dwarf)


MODELS AND POINTS:

1. Each player must bring a tank.  Any tank will do.  ANY tank.  No point limit.

2. Super heavies are allowed

3. All models must follow “What You See Is What You Get” (WYSIWYG). All
weapons, war gear, and so forth must be represented on the model.

4. Forge World Imperial Armor units may be used.



HOW TANKSGIVING WORKS:

Objective:  Kill tanks.

At the end of the event the player with the most points wins.

The event will be run as a "free for all" with each player fighting for himself on the same table.

Players will have 60 seconds to resolve their turn.  Don't think, just kill.


• Scoring System:

Immobilized enemy vehicle  -  1pt
Killed enemy Vehicle  -  2pts
Killed enemy vehicle by ramming  -  3pts
Killed enemy Super Heavy  -  5pts

• Upgrade Rolls:

Obviously Baneblades and Land raiders and other large vehicles will have a
distinct advantage in this game so to balance things out cheaper vehicles get
to roll on the upgrade table before battle commences. Vehicles 150pts or under
get 2 rolls on the table; vehicles 151-210pts get one roll. Vehicles 211 pts or
more get nothing.

• Upgrade Table Roll D6

1  -  Targeting Matrix (+1 BS)
2  -  Gyroscopic Stabilizers (Veh. Counts as moving 6” less for shooting purposes.)
3  -  Super Shot. (D3 shots at S10)
4  -  Safety Harness (Ignore Shaken and Stunned Results)
5  -  Venerable ( may make enemy reroll on Damage Table)
6  -  Ablative Armor (+1 side, front, rear Armor to a max 14)

Players may "trade down" on this chart.  Example:  If you roll a 5 you can choose to take result 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5.

• The game will be played on a 4' x 6' board.

• Each player deploys their vehicle with its rear touching a table edge.

• Players will roll randomly to determine deployment.  Highest roll will place last and go first.  Players will take their turn in a clockwise order starting with player who rolled highest.

• When your vehicle is destroyed it is removed from the table and then can come on at the start of the next player’s turn from any board edge.


The Fifth Edition Rulebook will be in use for all games and will be the definitive guide
for all rules.

[DarkAngelsGuy]

I definately think we need to change the way vehicles are deployed. Here we have this big table and everyone is on the table's edge all of the time, just turning to hit each other in the rear. The middle of the table sees no play at all. How about a scatter die being rolled at middle point of the table and following deep strike rules?

I also believe we should give a little bit more time for people to take their turn. Maybe an extra 15-30 seconds. People were rolling so fast that I could not see the roll results at all before the dice was picked-up and rolled again. I do not like that at all.

Ramming needs to be fixed otherwise you will only see deathrollas.

Also, with super heavys. There should be points for structural damage. Shooting everything I got into a super heavy to do 2 structure points and get nothing only for the next turn to result in a destroyed superheavy and one person getting all the credit.

Finally, the self destruct suggestion is a great one! I definately think we need to implement it!

[cryptoron]

Perhaps you could respawn on a random part of the table.  For instance we had two tables side by side.  Divide each table into 4 quarters, with two tables thats 8 sectors to deepstrike into.  Then roll a d8 to determine which sector, then deepstrike into it.

[Benjamin]

We are familiar with the Deep Strike mishap table, yes?